Picked up and Interesting Sheffield Folder this Afternoon

[44-henry]

Found an interesting Sheffield folding knife at an antique store near Lancaster, PA this afternoon. The style of the knife is interesting and I have not found one like it looking online, it is a locking design with an interesting tab release that extends out the back of the handle about midway up. The scales are very thin sheet brass with brass bolsters, black horn handles and steel pins. The blade is deeply stamped Superior Steel and the blade is also marked Sheffield, but the other markings are hard to make out. The blade is about 4" and the overall length is about 5" closed. It is a very well made knife and in quite decent condition and still locks up tight. The photos aren't very good, but all I had is my cell phone.

Any ideas about this knife, particularly when it was made?

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

No idea when it was made, but I sure do like it. :thumbsup:

 

[nhmoose]

Nice looking folder!!

 

[Artificer]

The Pistol Grip style handle came into common usage in the early 1600's, but what dates that knife is the finger nail slot and that type of lock. I am sorry I don't know enough about antique folding knives to realize when those two features came into use, but I would be surprised if it was before the 19th century and perhaps the very late 19th century.

Here's hoping we have someone on the forum who collects antique folders.

Gus

 

[44-henry]

I was puzzled by the nail nick feature as well as the lock. I have been researching it a bit using the British Blades forum and did find examples of Sheffield made knives the have been posted there. It would seem that the nick feature was used towards the latter part of the 18th century and I did find one other example of an 18th century knife with the lock like this one has.

One person pointed out that it could be an Indian or Pakistan copy of a Sheffield knife. I wouldn't disregard the possibility, but I have found no markings to indicate either of those countries and it does have faint, but visible Sheffield marks near the ricasso. Quality wise it is much better than the reproduction import folding knives that I have purchased from TOW over the years. Also if it is a recent reproduction someone has gone to a great deal of effort to provide a very believable patina/wear to it for not much return (I paid $25.00 for it). If it is a reproduction I would very much like to know more about the knife it was copied from and what period it represents as I really like the style and would like to build a reproduction of my own.

 

[crockett]

Nice knife. Lettering on stamp marks became more affordable around 1810, prior to 1810 a lot of marks were just symbols- like peppercorns or crossed keys. The kick at the riscasso was usually square and rather narrow, the edge going almost to the shoulder bolster. The button on top, that style dates back quite a ways. Smith's Key 1816 shows Sheffield Knives of that style but the buttons were either round or shaped like the front sight on a Colt "Peacemaker" A lot of folks don't realize that rocker type locking blades are of an old, pre-1840 origin. Buck Knives didn't invent the Lock back. When the button is half way- its a mid-length rocker. The spring is the same as a slip joint with the front cut off and the spring pushes up against the bottom of the button. They're really pretty neat knives.
I'm not sure when clip point folding blades became popular. Maybe around 1850. Prior to that a lot of folders had more round tipped blades, bulbous or willow leaf shaped. Some French folders had sharp pointed blades.
Pre-1840 pocket knives are few and far between. A lot of "historic" friction folders are European grapevine knives from the 1920's.
On a Sheffield knife there is a Grand Poo-Ba over there controlling stamp marks, etc.- it doesn't seem to be a Sheffield knife to me.
It wasn't until about 1850 that inexpensive sheet metal and metal stamping advanced to a point that those materials started showing up in folders. When a bolster is applied to a liner, that's called the "Applied" method. Prior to that a lot of folders had a handle where the bolster and liner were integral and iron- made from trip hammers.
The date???? That's a hard question. It might be from the late 1800's or something only a few years old, but the style- seems much better than a great majority of the folders being used.

 

[44-henry]

Good info and thanks for sharing. I like the style of the knife and despite what the photographs (need to take better ones) seem to show, it actually appears to be of very good quality construction. Also, the wear and patina on it is believable enough for me to be pretty certain it is at least a 19th century knife. The Sheffield stamp is on the blade along with a number (not legible). It does bother me that the markings are faint compared to the deep stamping of the other markings, but I am not sure why they would be present if it was not a Sheffield knife. I could see it being perhaps a forgery of a Sheffield folder, but even that would be interesting as it seems to me that those types of copies would have been built during the same period as the originals. If a company was producing this style in more recent times you would think they would show up on a internet search and yet I have not been able to find a single knife that appears like this one, copy or otherwise.

Regarding the use of applied bolsters, I am not sure I would buy into this technique only being utilized beginning in the mid 19th century. Lots of trades worked with thin sheet metal in the 18th century and nothing on this knife would have prevented its manufacture during that time period. If I was going to reproduce it the most economical means would be to use a jewelers saw to cut out the liners and bolsters from two different thicknesses of brass and than solder the two together. Even if I took my time I don't think that portion of the job would take me more than a couple hours and I am guessing a well trained 18th century worker would likely run circles around me with the same job. In any event I think the next folder I make might be inspired by this piece, perhaps with sterling rather than brass.

 

[Gene L]

Here's a very similar one except for the handles. Marked Superior Steel.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/searc...r+steel&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

 

[crockett]

A.L.J. I didn't realize the stamp had Sheffield in the name. The McKinley Act 1891 required imported goods to have the place of manufacture added so you can pretty much bet the farm when "Sheffield" is in a mark that the blade is post 1891.
I forget to mention the nail nicks. Back when blades were forged the nick was stamped. If the blade smith held the stamp incorrectly one side might be deeper or the entire thing not parallel to the spine. Today the nick is ground on a milling machine and the top of the nick is straight across. The old stamps can be similar or the entire nick can be dished- that is- not straight across the top.
I'm sorry on the sheet metal- what I was trying to say is that today sheet metal is so inexpensive that it is more affordable that a liner/bolster that are integral but pre-1850 it was the other way around. It was cheaper to forge a liner/bolster on a tilt hammer. Sheet metal cost more and was labor intensive and was used on the higher quality knives- so the applied method is pre-1840 but used on the better knives.
According to Bernard Levine the soldering is a 20th century thing. He about bit my head off because I thought that was how bolsters were applied.
You have to work to tight tolerances but you drill a very shallow blind hole on the inside of the bolster. Put a 1" long pin ( 1/16" diameter)in this hole and use the sharp point on a needle file to dimple all around the pin- staking it in place.
If you are near an ACE Hardware store you can get wire gauge drills that are just slightly smaller than 1/16" and drive the pin into the hole- that helps a lot.
This pin will be wobbly and you will think it is impossible but keep at it and you can get that pin tight. I used vise grip pliers on the pin and a 5 lb dumb bell plate on the bolster- and it held. That's plenty strong because you will eventually have the blade rivet and anchor rivet on the spring to act as second locks on the shoulder and heel bolsters.
Once the pin is tight chop or nip off the pin into a stub. The stub goes through a hole in the liner and is peen hammered. That's what holds the bolster in place.
Not only is soldering not pc it can also warp the liner so go with the pc method.
Both iron and yellow brass are good. "White" brass or silver nickel showed up in notable numbers beginning around 1810. As I understand matters you can mix and match a little- such as a yellow brass bolster on an iron liner. Smith's 1816 Key noted brass bolsters on certain knives so you are pretty safe to assume all the other knives in the catalog are iron liners and bolsters.
One last thing is the kick, as I said the kicks were very short front to back and square on the bottom. There were also square tang knives and these were considered the work of the better makers. The guy that made the blades was the blade smith and the guy that assembled all the parts was the cutler.
I cheat on my square tangs. I leave a bump on the spring that acts like a kick but the bump is so far into the slot that you can't see it. On the square tangs the ricasso area is usually longer than the blades with a kick.
If you really get into this area and do any research TRUST NOTHING. Check out all the footnotes and then the footnotes to the footnotes. I've run into an incredible amount of "Pre-1840" folding knives that after checking the details, stamp marks, etc. decided they were of a much later date, such as stamped from companies founded in 1870 and the knife claimed to be 1820. Maybe it is just me but I have had a lot of trouble finding real true pre-1840 folding knives.

 

[Nativearizonan]

As far as the patina goes, patina can be gained quite quickly on a knife that is carried daily for a few years, as a folding knife often is. It is a nice knife, whatever.

 

[wpnsman]

I think it is pre-1891. The McKinley Act stated the country of origin must be marked. Sheffield was known for quality steel/iron previous to said act, whether it was actually made there or not.

YMMV but that is the information I gleaned from a straight razor forum when I was trying to date a razor I have. Sheffield (pre-1891), Sheffield England (post-1891).

 

[Tinker2]

Sheffield is a city, where lots of places made knives.

I had some Spanish pocket knives that were from before the Spanish American war
Some of them look similar to yours





William Alexander

 

[Smokefire]

I can almost guarantee you that knife was made in India. They made many “tribute” knives there that paid “homage” to classic English styles and brands. Probably made sometime between 1930 and the approximate end of the Britain’s colonial involvement there (c.early 50’s).