Pietta 1851 Navy cylinder jams

[TarponStalker]

Hello everyone. Twice now while shooting this pistol I’ve had the cylinder lock up. These were not cap jams. I had to remove the barrel and cylinder to get it unlocked. Neither the hammer or cylinder would move a bit.
Has anyone else dealt with this and whet can I do to fix it. Thanks.

 

[45D]

Probably the bolt not resetting.

Mike

 

[Erwan]

Could be some reasons for this, but the simplest is: did you shoot much before the problem occurred and did you see the position of the bolt: if one end of the spring is worn the lock can slip out, come up too fast and jam the hammer and cylinder (rare, but possible).
When the gun is clean, can you clearly hear the "clicks" of the cocking and locking system?
Was the axle properly greased before firing?
Look inside to see if there is a piece of primer somewhere in the mechanism.

 

[denster]

The bolt is not resetting likely due to a bit of cap fragment under the hammer or other debris. That is why it only happens occasionally and the problem can be corrected by removing the cylinder.

 

[4575wcf]

I bought a matched pair of Pietta 1851's some years ago, and I have not had opportunity to shoot them much, but right out of the factory they needed tuned up. The bolt is a bit too wide for the cylinder notches, the lock work is burred and dragging causing slow hammer fall and poor ignition. All of these issues can be addressed and corrected, but it is pain with a new gun that should run good out of the box. Colt's cap and ball mechanism is not difficult to understand, or to time, and parts are readily available. The cowboy action crowd has really put these pistols to work, so the tuning information is readily available. I don't know if the original Colts gave these issues or not, but you just about have to fit up your own gun to get one worth shooting a lot. Keeping the cylinder pin greased is very important, about 18 rounds in my experience is the end of reliability before a tear down and thorough cleaning. The big secret to keeping spent caps out of your lock work is to have the recess in your hammer nose welded up and dressed flat. The recess "grabs" spent caps and pulls them off to drop into the lock work. Most pistols use the recessed hammer, whether the locking pins are present or not. Got that tip from the cowboy action guys, my hammers will lose their locking pin notches in the near future.

 

[hawkeye2]

As others have said I believe the bolt is not resetting for some reason. If the gun is new there could be a burr or shaving from machining inside causing a random problem. If used dirt, cap fragments, etc. can cause problems. The hammer has to fall almost to the point of hitting the nipple before it will reset and when it does (pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer from full cock) you should hear a little click. If you lower the hammer from full cock and don't reach the position where it resets the gun is locked up. If the hammer is dragging a little when you lower it slowly in may bind and not reach the reset point and of course if you lower the hammer from full cock, stop just before the reset point and try to recock it you can't.

 

[TarponStalker]

Thanks for the replies.
I do think it’s the bolt not resetting as some of you mentioned. I’m not very familiar with the gun but there are times when I’m trying to slide the cylinder back on, the bolt won’t go down whether the hammer is at half cock, full cock or down. This prevents the cylinder from sliding on fully until I work with it. As for how much it was fired, very little. The previous owner only shot it a handful of times. I’ve shot it about 40 times.
When I first got it I only had #11 caps. They jammed often. Once I got #10 caps I haven’t had any cap jams. YET.

 

[45D]

You'll need to manually reset the bolt by pushing the bolt down when the cylinder is off.
The cam may have raised a burr since the Pietta bolt arms are so thick (causing way too much tension against the cam) so look to see if there is a ridge or any obvious moved material on the cam.
On the bolt, the reset cut is the lower circular cutaway on the left arm. This can be clearanced to allow reset to be earlier.
Reset should happen when the face of the hammer breaks the recoil shield plane. It's the second "click" you hear when letting the hammer down from full cock . . . the first being the hand selecting the next ratchet tooth.

Mike

 

[TarponStalker]

You'll need to manually reset the bolt by pushing the bolt down when the cylinder is off.
The cam may have raised a burr since the Pietta bolt arms are so thick (causing way too much tension against the cam) so look to see if there is a ridge or any obvious moved material on the cam.
On the bolt, the reset cut is the lower circular cutaway on the left arm. This can be clearanced to allow reset to be earlier.
Reset should happen when the face of the hammer breaks the recoil shield plane. It's the second "click" you hear when letting the hammer down from full cock . . . the first being the hand selecting the next ratchet tooth.

Mike

Thanks Mike
Looks like I’ll be learning how to fully disassemble this gun. As much as I’ve been involved in building and shooting BP arms it’s always been rifles. Handguns are new to me so tearing one apart concerns me a little.
even the names of the parts are foreign to me. Im learning though.

 

[Michiganmuzzy]

Thanks Mike
Looks like I’ll be learning how to fully disassemble this gun. As much as I’ve been involved in building and shooting BP arms it’s always been rifles. Handguns are new to me so tearing one apart concerns me a little.
even the names of the parts are foreign to me. Im learning though.

Take plenty of pics and go slowly. They aren't much trouble unless you disassemble and leave them for a year or 3 and forget how to put it back together.

 

[Griz44Mag]

After reading through all the comments on this thread the one item that stands out - you are not getting the gun clean.
Tear it down - completely. These are very simple guns and easy to tear down and clean.
Clean it up, check for wear on all the internals, lube properly. I'll bet your issues get resolved.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

This is why I only shoot Remington 1858s. Colts are as sexy as a teenage Britany Spears, and probably as difficult to coax into doing what you want.

 

[45D]

Well, believe it or not, if the bolt in a Rem. doesn't reset . . . it will lock up too!! But hey, everybody has there favourite!! And that's ok with me!!lol

Mike

 

[hawkeye2]

"if the bolt in a Rem. doesn't reset . . . it will lock up too!!"

A Remington will do everything a Colt can do but better including locking up.

My wife managed to lock her Remington up shooting an individual match at a skirmish. I had never thought to tell her that could happen and I wasn't there. A friend helped her by taking off the grips and freeing it up but I don't think he really understood what was happening.

 

[Bad Karma]

Well, believe it or not, if the bolt in a Rem. doesn't reset . . . it will lock up too!! But hey, everybody has there favourite!! And that's ok with me!!lol

Mike

I’ve had it happen to various Rugers as well. Cartridge guns!! I guess we could all go back to matchlocks…

 

[Bad Karma]

This is why I only shoot Remington 1858s. Colts are as sexy as a teenage Britany Spears, and probably as difficult to coax into doing what you want.

I’ve never met her but word on the street was she wasn’t hard to coax… about the same as my Colts. Sexy to look at and if you stroke them just right they’ll do exactly what you want.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

I’ve had it happen to various Rugers as well. Cartridge guns!! I guess we could all go back to matchlocks…

My Grandfather said to me once "If it has moving parts, it can jam up".
I on more than one occasion said "if it is man made it can and will fail at some point". That applies to everything.

 

[wb78963]

I bought a matched pair of Pietta 1851's some years ago, and I have not had opportunity to shoot them much, but right out of the factory they needed tuned up. The bolt is a bit too wide for the cylinder notches, the lock work is burred and dragging causing slow hammer fall and poor ignition. All of these issues can be addressed and corrected, but it is pain with a new gun that should run good out of the box. Colt's cap and ball mechanism is not difficult to understand, or to time, and parts are readily available. The cowboy action crowd has really put these pistols to work, so the tuning information is readily available. I don't know if the original Colts gave these issues or not, but you just about have to fit up your own gun to get one worth shooting a lot. Keeping the cylinder pin greased is very important, about 18 rounds in my experience is the end of reliability before a tear down and thorough cleaning. The big secret to keeping spent caps out of your lock work is to have the recess in your hammer nose welded up and dressed flat. The recess "grabs" spent caps and pulls them off to drop into the lock work. Most pistols use the recessed hammer, whether the locking pins are present or not. Got that tip from the cowboy action guys, my hammers will lose their locking pin notches in the near future.

Italian made replicas actually are working (sort of) kits that need a lot of tuning.. It can be done by following the instructional videos by Duelist 19654, Larson E, Pettifogger*, or by a qualified gunsmith like Goons Gun Works.
They replicas are assembled by workmen not gun smiths the way original Colt and Remington's were made.
The exception is the Ruger Old Army which is the Rolls Royce of percussion hand guns if you can find one.
I gave up on a pair of 1860 Army guns and sent them to Goons. Now they shoot with the boring regularity of suppository guns.
Hope this helps
Bunk
*CAS City forum "Dark Siders Den" section

 

[4575wcf]

I would agree with the general consensus that the 1858 Remington Beals patent revolver is a superior design to the Colt, except for the smaller cylinder pin. The smaller the hole, the greater the effect of black powder fouling. That is the only fly in the ointment of an otherwise great design. Incidentally, the 1875 Remington and the 1873 Colt were neck and neck in the army trials in the early black powder cartridge days, but the removeable and maintainable cylinder bushing introduced with the Colt decided the day. I have had to open the cylinder pin hole(s) up a bit to get any reliability approaching the Colt on every Remington repro I have purchased.

 

[4575wcf]

I must admit a personal preference for the 1851 Navy pistol above all others. I prefer the smaller grip frame of the Navy to that of the .44 Army, and I prefer the .36 caliber to the .44. I recently acquired an 1862 Pocket Police, but I have not fired this gun enough to come to a decision as of yet. It is a 4 1/2 inch barrel version, and the necessary short rammer is barely functional. I am in this pistol cheap enough to fit a replacement 6 1/2 inch barrel and rammer, and that change may happen.