Possible dumb ramrod question,,

[riarcher]

May be a dumb question,, but I've gotta know-
Why are the ball ends of my Bess' rammers rounded?
Round rammer to a round ball would seem,,, deforming at best. Would also seem to go off ball's center and drag on the bore (steel to steel) and not appear to be a good thing.
Did the English Ministry have one of them "brain farts" or was there a really good reason for such a setup?
Simple mind wants to know. :redface:

 

[Roy]

Most likely it was to stop from gouging or wearing on the bore. Ramming down the lead in the heat of battle sort of thing a rounded edge would have to be better than a flat one. Just a guess. :winking:

 

[musketman]

May be a dumb question,, but I've gotta know-
Why are the ball ends of my Bess' rammers rounded?

I'm glad it is, what ever the reason, though not originally intended for shot, I feel that it helps hold the pellets in place better, a concaved over-shot card will "grip" the barrel better than a flat or convexed card... (my opinion)

This would benifit doubles moreso...

 

[musketman]

Would also seem to go off ball's center and drag on the bore (steel to steel) and not appear to be a good thing.

The British loved their barrels shiny, let that be known, they would use their rammers to polish the barrel during down time...

Perhaps the steel to steel contact inside the bore was a way to polish the inside as well, or it worked as a fouling scraper while loading... :hmm:

 

[riarcher]

"That" I can agree with. Great idea for a shotgun, but, I doubt that was their original intention. :thumbsup:

 

[riarcher]

"Fouling scraper, shining the bore" I don't know about that one. :haha: but I guess one never knows. Good try though! :thumbsup:

 

[musketman]

"Fouling scraper, shining the bore" I don't know about that one. :haha: but I guess one never knows. Good try though! :thumbsup:

Wait until I get started, let's run this up the flag pole and see who salutes...

How about the bell end of the rammer doubled as a cleaning jag, a cleaning patch is tied to the shaft around the bell to form a bore size cleaning wad... :hmm:

Might work if you lost your tow worm, then again, it might stick your rammer in the breech for life... :haha:

OK, I'm clutching at straws here, anyone else want to take a stab at it?

 

[musketman]

OK, I got out my bess and was thinking (a dangerous thing by itself), since the use of a short starter was not common practice, I believe the bell end of the rammer was designed to aid loading...

With a flat tip to the rammer, one would have to be straight in line with the ball in order to center it in the bore, but the bell tip would allow the shooter to "rock" the rammer on the flat spot of the ball in order to center it...

(now my head hurts) :haha:

 

[RC]

well i'll take a stab,,, i figure the bell would center on the ball better and stop it rolling the patch out, and a flat one,besides letting ball roll more... may leave a flat spot on the ball,if'n ya hammered the ball in real tight..never really gave it much thought,till i got on this forum,dang,i got answers to questions i didn't know i had...but this one is a shot in the dark for me...just my thought..RC

 

[riarcher]

but the bell tip would allow the shooter to "rock" the rammer on the flat spot of the ball in order to center it...

(now my head hurts) :haha:

Anouther good try. :applause:
However, I'm under the impression that spue cutters were not incorporated on the old molds and probably a ragged nipper's mark would be there instead?

 

[musketman]

Anouther good try. :applause:

Methinks ye may already know the answer to thy question... :hmm:

Thoust wouldn't string ol' Musketman along, would ye? :rotf:

 

[musketman]

OK, last try, then I'll go to my room...

Paper cartridges, the bell end of the rammer was to concave the folded paper over the ball like it does an over-shot card for the shotgunners...

Additional after-thought: the bell end would concave any wadding material enough so it is preformed to take a ball and center it in the wad... :winking:

 

[riarcher]

RC, Puzzling?
On pure speculation only, I'm wondering if the Paper Carts. had something to do with it?
If the carts were tied on top of the ball and opened like a flower of sorts, I would think that the rounded rammer would be fairly self centering?
Unfortunately,,,, From what I've been seeing,, the British carts wern't made that way. Or were they?
I've speculated on other possibilities, and punched holes in them already. This is the only one I can think of that may hold up to investigations. :hmm:
What do you folks think? Possible?

 

[riarcher]

Oooops, we must of been posting about the same time. :hatsoff:
But you're on the same track as me for sure.

 

[musketman]

From an artical on the Brown Bess:

Ammunition came in the form of rolled paper cartridges containing six or eight drams of powder, and a one ounce lead ball. Each end was sealed with pack thread. On loading, the rear end was bitten off and a priming charge of powder placed in the pan. The remaining powder was poured in the muzzle followed by the ball. The paper was then packed down by the ramrod as wadding.

The bell shaped curve of the rammer has no choice but to concave the paper, thus hold it in place, that has to be the logic behind it...
[url] http://freenet.vcu.edu/sigs/reg64/bess.html[/url]

 

[weirdjack]

i figure the bell would center on the ball better and stop it rolling the patch out

All this concern over the sprue, rolling the ball around, patching, etc....
Remember that the Bess was designed for use with a paper cartridge and a fairly undersize ball. Rip off the end of the cartridge, prime, pour remaining powder down bore, insert paper wrapped ball, then ram the whole thing down.
You would have no idea where the sprue was...nor care. You are being shot at. You are loading and firing per drill as fast as you can. The paper on top of the ball wouldn't care if the rammer is rounded or concave. It wasn't designed for loading a tightly patched round ball.
For those of you have have used a concave end range rod on a large bore smoothie over many shots, you probably noticed (as I have that) the concave end just fills up with fouling after a few shots anyway. A slightly rounded end doesn't.
My own opinion is that (A) with the technology of the day it was easier and cheaper to make a rounded end than a concave end and (B) a concave end offered no advantage for military usage.
Another question might be: How many civilian arms of the same period came with concave rod ends? Or came with metal rod ends at all? Fowlers/shotguns with wide flat ends perhaps?

Jack

 

[musketman]

For those of you have have used a concave end range rod on a large bore smoothie over many shots, you probably noticed (as I have that) the concave end just fills up with fouling after a few shots anyway. A slightly rounded end doesn't.

That makes more sense than my babbling... :thumbsup:

 

[RC]

huh... slightly rounded...concurve?

 

[riarcher]

:thumbsup:
They weren't (specificly) shooting at,,,, more like shooting towards.
Volley,,, just get several hundred hunks of hi-speed lead heading in their direction. Someone is bound to hit something,,, even with a bounce.
Fire!!! That-a-way!
"Accuacy" was the least of their concern.
READY! POINT! PULL! anyone?

 

[fluggies4]

Here is the rest of the story...
The rounded end was because if a soldier rammed home a charge and in the heat of battle forgot to remove the rammer (are you listening intently? :shocked2: ).... the rammer, when fired out of the musket, would be deflected by the curved surface of the end and fall to the ground so that it could be recovered.

What do you think?? :rotf: