Powder or 777 pellets

[NYMorey]

I'm new to Muzzleloading. Just bought a T/C New Englander. I've been at the range and using both BP and 777 pellets. I shoot 100 grains and 250 gr sabots.
The pellets misfire often whereas the BP fires consistantly. I use bore butter on the sabots and I swab the barrel after about 5 or 6 shots. Also the 100 gr BP "kicks" harder than the 2 50gr 777 pellets.
I'm wondering if the pellets are not as reliable with a percussion type rifle.
Also, when firing with pellets, I'm 3" to the left, with BP - dead center. Is that possible?

As far as I's concerned, no more pellets.
Any thoughts?

 

[oldmaster]

I've never had good luck with pellets in a rifle. They seem to do good in a revolver but not the rifle. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Keppy]

New Englander Said:

I'm new to Muzzleloading. Just bought a T/C New Englander. I've been at the range and using both BP and 777 pellets. I shoot 100 grains and 250 gr sabots.
The pellets misfire often whereas the BP fires consistantly. I use bore butter on the sabots and I swab the barrel after about 5 or 6 shots. Also the 100 gr BP "kicks" harder than the 2 50gr 777 pellets.
I'm wondering if the pellets are not as reliable with a percussion type rifle.
Also, when firing with pellets, I'm 3" to the left, with BP - dead center. Is that possible?

Well as for 777 pellets I have never use them but the last Rifle I bought was sold because the guy had used pellet in it and could not get it to fire. It was still loaded with pellets when I bought it. You didn't say what Black powder you are using. I use Goex FFF in my 54 Cal. and 65 grs in a nice load with RBP. 100 grs could be much. As for the diffrece in impact that is possible. I'm sure there are a few guys on the forum the have your rifle and will be a lot of help. Welcome to the fourm.

 

[bramble]

It is my understanding that the pellets are designed for the type of gun whose name we do not mention here, and therefore require the 209 igniter. BP is always preferred (and much cheaper)
You did not mention the caliber of your rifle, so its hard to judge 100 gr out of context. That said, you'll find numerous threads on MLF dealing with fine tuning your load for your rifle. Sometimes 10 gr difference will make a world of difference in accuracy.
I'd also recommend trying patched round balls (PRB's). Between BP & PRB's you can run a lot of rounds for very little money. I have a T/C Hawkin .50 and have gotten 3 whitetails this year with PRB's Accurate and effective.
Your mention of 777 pellets is guaranteed to get a few responses.
As to the off center, difference, I'll have to defer to others.
Welcome to the smoke
bramble

 

[NYMorey]

Thanks for the replies.
I failed to mention I that my rifle is a 50 caliber and the BP is GOEX FFg

I'm taking tomorrow off and going hunting for the first time with it.

Anybody want some pellets!

 

[Many Klatch]

Just my 2 cents, but most new shooters put too much powder in the gun. It kicks like a mule and you will wind up with a flinch that will make you miss. You can't hit anything if your eyes are closed.

I shoot 90 grains of 2F in my .72 Brown Bess
55 or 75 grains of 3F in my .54 (depending on the range)and how I feel.

I assume that you are shooting a .50 caliber. 100 grains is just too much. If you had a chance to shoot over snow, you would find a lot of unburned powder laying on the snow in front of you after a couple of shots.

In the oldtime cartridges like the .45-70 the second number is the grains of black powder. So you can see that the 44-40 and 45-70 and 30-30 killed a lot of game with a lot less powder than you are using. The 50-120 is a real mankiller at both ends.

Just my opinion. :bull:

Many Klatch

 

[NYMorey]

interesting. I used 100 gr because that is what the previous owner shot.

I don't think I'm flinching because when I had misfire, no movement and the with the BP I'm touching the holes at 50 yds center, with the pellets I'm touching holes 3" to the left

 

[Keppy]

interesting. I used 100 gr because that is what the previous owner shot.

Just remember that it's best to work up a load for your Rifle. I have loaded center fire for years and max loads never were the most accurate.Same holds true for this too.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't know how long your barrel is, but my 39 inch barrel will burn a max of 88 grains before I am dumping unburned powder on the ground. I do not try to shoot more than 80 grains, and I have found that 75 grains gives me the accuracy I want at 100 yds. This is the same GOEX FFg powder you are using, in a .50 cal. rifle, with a 1:48 ROT. I use only a PRB of .490 caliber, the patch being .015" thick, and lubed with NL1000, or wonderlube. When I use this up, I am probably going to make my own " Moose Snot " for a lube, using Stumpy's recipe.

 

[NYMorey]

From these replies and reading other forums you can bet I will be playing with 70-80 gr at the range next time. Thanks for the input

 

[Rat Trapper]

Next time you buy powder buy some Triple Seven 2F. With the loose triple seven you should not have any problems. I would also sugest a hot shot niple and the CCI mag #11 caps. Pellets do not work very well in most tradional muzzle loaders. They are best left for the guys with the more modern rifles. I have had great luck with the Hornady great plains bullets in my TC Hawken. Make sure you wipe the barrel and then run the rod and patch down the barrel and leave it there while you pop couple caps. Then if the patch is burned when removed it is ok to load and it will fire.

 

[NYMorey]

I've seen the hot shot nipple. What makes it different?

 

[Keppy]

New Englander Said:

The pellets misfire often whereas the BP fires consistantly.

So there's no reason to change your nipple if you use BP. Rule #1 if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Mad Professor]

How do you "work up a load " with 50 gr pellets? Am I missing something here?

 

[ss1]

Same as any load, only powder is constance. 490, .495, & .50 balls. 15, 18, and 20 patches. Oh yes, forgot Wonder Wads, with or without. About 90 different loads to work up.

 

[Mad Professor]

Thanks, forgot everything except the obvious.

Might burn up a bit of VERY EXPENSIVE pellets before I found rifle like 1 or 3 vs 2,....... 50 gr pellets?

 

[jdixon]

I use bore butter on the sabots and I swab the barrel after about 5 or 6 shots.

Another point that has not been mentioned yet is about swabbing the barrel. You are using plastic sabot (a habit I hope that after some additional research here you will drop) and running them out of that bore my guess at least at 1900 fps. Each shot melts some of that sabot on the barrel, making each subsequent load harder to seat. This plastic and powder fouling condition also produces dramatic swings in velocity, ruining potential accuracy. It is amazing to see with a chronograph just how much difference in velocity there is between the first shot out of a clean barrel and the second shot in a barrel with minor fouling. Muzzel velocity differences can range as high as 15% greater in the fouled barrel. When sighting in for hunting you need to do so with each shot out a barrel as close to clean as possible. You are not going into the field opening day with a dirty barrel are you?, no it will be squeeky clean. Threfore, when sighting in do everything you can to ensure the barrel is as close to that condition as possible for each shot. Regardless of what you may see on certain T.V. commericals on the Outdoor Channel, get in the habit of swabbing between each shot. You will soon find that MZ is more accuraate than you thought, when treated right.

Oh' yeah, another vote for you to loose the pellets :shake:

 

[Slamfire]

I pcked up a blister pack of Pyrodox pellets at Wally's, the price was $8.99, down at the bottom it said it had 2 oz of powder. That worked out to just a bit under $80 per pound. :shocked2: Thats nearly 4 lbs of the loose stuff. Bein' as how it don't make for a accurate or easily adjustable load, I can't see payin' almost $60 for the convienence of not measurin' out the loose powder. Now if it worked better that might be a different story. :shake: It is yore money, spend it however you want. :blah:

 

[NYMorey]

JR - you make an interesting point. Like I said, I swab after every 4th to 6th shot because, as you stated, I saw the accuracy drop off after that. Accuracy comes right back in after the swabbing.

Are you recommending round balls?

I would think that the Mini's, since that don't need a patch would leave lead deposits in the rifling and have the same effect, true?

Sorry if the Q's seem silly but I'm brand new to this game and I'm trying to pick all your brains for information. Ask me about Bow and I'm a little more educated.

 

[jdixon]

Are you recommending round balls?

I would think that the Mini's, since that don't need a patch would leave lead deposits in the rifling and have the same effect, true?

Sorry if the Q's seem silly but I'm brand new to this game and I'm trying to pick all your brains for information. Ask me about Bow and I'm a little more educated.

As far as your projectile goes, consider a few realities here.
First - by design with iron sights (I hope you have not put a scope on that gun!) you will not be able to shoot that gun accurately at a deer sized animal at any more than 100 yrds. A patched round ball will do just fine out to that range in front of 70 to 80 grains of black powder.
Second - when it comes to shooting these guns accurately while hunting, practice, practice, practice right? You can shoot all afternoon with loose black powder and a bag of cast round balls for the price of 5 shots of that pre-manufactured so-called high performance stuff, and have a lot more fun.
Third - sure you can go with a lead conical in that 1:48 twist. Running up around 300 grains, projectiles like Buffalo Bullets carry a lot of authority down range. Yes, these un-patched bullets will lead foul your barrel causing the same problems as the plastic. You will have to use something like Butch’s Bore Shine on patches at the range and an occasional scrubbing with a brass brush to get that stuff out between shots. For whatever reason, I have just not found those rounds nearly as accurate as the patched round balls I have shot out of a 1:48 that I have. My guess is that rate of twist is just a little too slow for longer bullets. Accuracy notwithstanding, I have not seen the need for all that extra weight in the bullet.
Many people here will report taking all kinds of deer with PBR's, I took two last weekend with them in .50. A boat load of deer have fallen to round balls of .45 caliber and smaller in eastern North America over the years. A well placed shot, and if you bow hunt you know where that is, with a PRB will kill a whitetail out as far as you can accurately shoot that thing. So long as that 1:48 rifling in your particular gun gives you accuracy with a round ball (that is a touch fast for a PBR but, you should be alright) I would recommend them for all of your shooting.

None of your questions are silly. Others and I jabbed you a little about the modern stuff you mentioned and that is just part of the socialization the traditional guys will put you through so long as you come to them for advice and answers. You will find that most of the members of this forum are going to give you advice that strongly leans toward the more traditional style of muzzleloader hunting. They, like I, enjoy taking game or shooting these firearms in the traditional style. Most of us have taken animals with the modern firearms and grew bored with that type of hunting. The additional sport of hunting with a gun that is in every aspect the same as what people hunted with 150 or 200 years ago renewed the fun and since it worked for us, we believe it will work for all.
Prediction - you keep hanging out here you will be hunting deer with a flintlock you built yourself in a few years.

Good luck on your hunt this weekend ”“ let us know how it went.