Powder Question...difference between FFg and FFFg?

[strand]

I see about a 50/50 split between which powder is preferred by different shooters. I am getting a .54 hawken and will be shooting a PRB but I am a little confused on which powder to purchase, I have heard Pyrodex is the best for this gun, I guess I will just have to try it out. My question is what is the difference between FFg and FFFg, is one cleaner than the other or burn better? and how does GOEX compare with Pyrodex and Triple 7.

Thank you

 

[roundball]

I see about a 50/50 split between which powder is preferred by different shooters. I am getting a .54 hawken and will be shooting a PRB but I am a little confused on which powder to purchase, I have heard Pyrodex is the best for this gun, I guess I will just have to try it out. My question is what is the difference between FFg and FFFg, is one cleaner than the other or burn better? and how does GOEX compare with Pyrodex and Triple 7.

Thank you

Assuming it's a percussion, Pyrodex RS (an FFg equivalent) will work fine and it's usually readily available at Walmart stores, etc...used it for several years myself in TC Hawken percussions.

Moved into flintlocks which require real BP for reliable ignition and I chose Goex...found it to be so fast, clean, and accurate, I've rezeroed my percussions with it too.

The downside to real BP is there are not as many local outlets which carry it and often you have to mail order it. But if you can get Goex, I'd recommend it over Pyrodex RS or any other BP substitute as it gives extremely reliable and fast ignition...and it's normally less expensive than the modern BP substitues...exact same clean up procedures apply to both Goex & Pyrodex RS so there's no difference there.

Black powder is packaged in various size "granulations" and the different sizes are referred to with the "F" codes you asked about...The finer the granulation size, the more "F"'s there are in the designation...for example:

FFFFg is extremely fine and typically used only as priming powder in flintlocks;

FFFg is the next larger size granulation and often used for the main charges in small to medium bores like .45/.50/.54 calibers;

FFg is larger still, and often used for the main charges in larger bores like .58/.62, but some use it in .50/54 too.

Fg is larger and normally used in very, very large bores;

Pyrodex-RS was designed to simulate BP FFg;
Pyrodex-P was designed to simulate BP FFFg;

Everyone has settled on various choices for various reasons...mine happen to be Goex FFFg in .45/.50/.54[url] calibers...in[/url] my .54, I use 60grns Goex FFFg for plinking at the range, and 90grns for my hunting load.

Note: Dedicate yourself now to becoming fanatical about keeping your ML squeaky clean and lubed...read/study/learn everything there is to know about it or you may inadvertently ruin a barrel almost overnight.

:thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Prior thread - FFFFg vs. FFFg vs. FFg

Click on the above.

 

[Ohio Joe]

I have heard Pyrodex is the best for this gun, I guess I will just have to try it out.

Pyrodex or any other substitute replica black powder is not best for any Black Powder Muzzleloader. A Black Powder Muzzleloader is just that, and real black powder should be used!

Now if we could get everyone to understand this, then real black powder would be readily available at any outlet that sold powder across this country.

Fake black powder is just that, fake! Support the fake stuff and one day if you own a flintlock or plan to get one you'll find you'll never be able to shoot it because the fake stuff doesn't work.

Always buy the real stuff if at all possible. You will be doing a great deal in the line of keeping the Black Powder sports alive and well... All of us have to understand this if we want to keep shooting our frontstuffers...eace:

 

[Canuck Caster]

Another factor in the FFg vs. FFFg comparison that is very important is the pressure curve. Because FFFg is finer than FFg, it has more surface area and faster burn times. It will produce higher pressures faster than FFg. Use it with caution in larger bores. It is considered by many to be good for all loads in .45 and smaller. In the mid bores, .50 and .54, it is only used in light target loads by many shooters (say 60-70 grains or less). Most people that I know of use FFg in .50 and .54 for heavier loads. I'd avoid FFFg in bores .58 and up altogether, IMHO. Go only FFg for .58 to.69, I'd say, and Fg for bores bigger than .69. The beauty of .50 and .54 is that they can shoot both FFg and FFFg, but you have to know how each granulation behaves and load accordingly. :results:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Now if we could get everyone to understand this, then real black powder would be readily available at any outlet that sold powder across this country.

Fake black powder is just that, fake! Support the fake stuff and one day if you own a flintlock or plan to get one you'll find you'll never be able to shoot it because the fake stuff doesn't work.

Always buy the real stuff if at all possible. You will be doing a great deal in the line of keeping the Black Powder sports alive and well... All of us have to understand this if we want to keep shooting our frontstuffers...

AMEN! I go into my local sporting goods store and ask for black powder and #11 primers even though they no longer carry blackpowder and only carry the primers for the few weeks before special m/l season (7 days in this region). I know the answer, but I just like asking afterwards: "Well, do you know of a real sporting goods store I can try?"

They have given up on pistols and recurve bows, too. Not enough people like me peatering them, I guess.

 

[Keith]

I found a place about a half hour from home with BP. I got some but it was $18 a pound. What I am trying to decide now is do I go back next time and pay the higher price or mail order? Mail order I can save a few bucks a pound, but it doesn't help encourage any local businesses to carry the real stuff.
:hmm:

 

[Kenney Moore]

I see about a 50/50 split between which powder is preferred by different shooters. My question is what is the difference between FFg and FFFg, is one cleaner than the other or burn better? and how does GOEX compare with Pyrodex and Triple 7.

Howdy,
I've only ever used Black Powder in my firearms and can not comment on Pyrodex except I don't figure there's any need to fix what's not broke. :shocking: I use FFFG in my .45, .50, and .54 with consistant results.
I'm not saying Black Powder is the only way, but it works for me.
I've never shot Pyrodex or Tripple 7, but I read an article about Tripple 7 stating it was really made for percussion guns. The article stated you should put a few grains of Black Powder down the barrel before the T7 so it would ignite the T7 when using a flintlock. Being I shoot all flinters, I don't think I want to mix powders. It is supposed to be cleaner burning, BUT...

I've not had any problem finding Black Powder here in the East. I buy it by the keg and get it for around $10 to $11 a pound.

Hope I've helped a little and not added confusion.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I used the pyrodex in my inline rifle and when I first bought my flintlock, I tried some in it too, because that's what I had on hand. Being the equivalent of FFg, it didn't work too well in the pan. I had a little FFFg powder left that I had used years previously in a cap & ball pistol, so I tried the pyrodex in the barrel and the FFFg in the pan. Then it worked.

However, I needed to use only one grade of powder for both primer and charge for a reenactment that was coming up. So, I went looking for more FFFg figuring it would be pretty easy to find - lots of Muzzleloader enthusiasts in Vermont and Northeastern New York. Man was I wrong. It was almost impossible to find and I called everyplace within about 75 miles of here. Everyone had Pyrodex or Triple 7. Pyrodex was the same as what I tried earlier, so I knew that wouldn't work. So I paid the $25 for a pound of Triple 7 that was supposed to be the equivalent of FFFg, and tried it. It worked fine, was just bloody expensive. So, I made up my cartridges from that.

Used it at the reenactment, and it worked great (just shooting blanks). You tear off the top of the cartridge with your teeth, prime the pan and dump the rest down the barrel. My first shot misfired. I adjusted the flint and then the next 9 shots went off without a hitch. Cleaned up super easily. Dump a little water on the fouling on the outside of the barrel, and it just ran right off (no sulphur in it). Way too expensive to use when you're filling the cartridges with 90 gr. and you shoot up 50-70 cartridges in a weekend. So, I still went looking for the "real" thing.

Found it at a company that supplies heating oil in a town about 6 miles away. They just happen to supply the local slate quarries with black powder for their blasting. The quarry uses it because it breaks off slate in bigger and more useable pieces than "modern" explosives. Never would have thought of that except that one of the BP shooters who shot competitively around here told me to check with them. Crazy thing is, I've been buying heating oil from these guys for years.

So, now I get my real black powder from them. Pretty crazy when virtually all the sporting goods stores carry muzzleloaders, but not a one of them carries black powder. So, if you have any quarries in your area, find out where they get their black powder. Then don't forget to tell the sporting goods stores where you got it!
:thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

FYI...if you're able to buy a 25lb case at a time, either for yourself or splitting it with someone else, a couple mail order places will deliver a case of Goex to your door for about $9/lb

 

:I & all the guys I shoot with, use 2F from .50 & bigger.
: Real black powder has always given me better accuracy than Pyrodex, whether it is used in a muzleloader or BP ctg. gun. When chrongraphing loads, real BP ALWAYS gives much tighter shot to shot velocities than do any of the BP replacements. These close shot to shot velocities usually mean better accuracy, but not always. What it does mean, is that the load is more consistant in pressure & that usually means better accuracy potential, once the proper ball/patch combo is found. All isn't rosy with real BP - it fouls more than the BP subs, which are actually a form of smokeless powder, specifically formulated to burn similar to BP.
: Contrary to what others have stated, and what I've seen in print, I have never found 3F to burn cleaner than 2F. I have actaully found the reverse, probably due to the much lower pressure with 2F in charges normally used for target and hunting.