powder storage

[buckhorn]

For static vs black powder test see

[url] http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/mlexperiments/sparks/sparks.html[/url]

 

[Dickert54cal]

:surrender: :bow: :v :hatsoff:
Your point is well delivered and I am very happy to see that people in this forum debate without arguing---May I humbly thank you for your deliberate, purposeful and yet very informative postings---however I will continue not to use plastics for my blackpowder...Im my mind, especially with two small children, I would rather treat blackpowder with the utmost respect and air on the side of caution. :bow:

 

[paulvallandigham]

:thumbsup:

I agree with Roundball. All the worry about storing black powder is overdone, IMHO. If you don't air condition and heat your home with a central heating source, then an old refrigerator, or ice chest makes a responsible choice for storage. Just keep the stuff out of direct sunlight( heat ), and as dry as possible. YOu can acquire descicant packets from numerous sources, and they can always be put inside a large container to absorb any moisture that may enter it.

 

[Mad Monk]

Dickert54cal,

You might not want to rely too heavily on military sources for info on black powder.

I had to laugh about Indiantown Gap. That is the crowd that can't shot straight. Heaving 155mm rounds over a mountain into state game lands. The "Gap" wants a hunk of what is known as Saint Anthony's Wilderness because they can't shoot straight.

Aberdeen Proving Ground's Ballistic Research Laboratory.
I have a pile of their publications from the 1970's into the 1980's where they investigated a problem with some lots of GOEX made in the mid-1970's. BP used in intermediate primers in large-caliber artillery. Some "deviant" lots blew up a number of guns.
So Aberdeen takes on the task of figuring out what happened. They spent a few million looking into the problem and trying to reinvent black powder. All the dumb s---- would have had to do was to run a simple potassium nitrate purity test on the powder and they would have found out what was wrong with certain lots of GOEX out of the old Moosic plant.
They wasted a lot of money, learned nothing and proved nothing.

I thought the powder companies came up shy on bp technology. The U.S. military was even less educated on the subject than they were.

 

[kayja]

are 4l plastic milk jugs safe to store powder in? how long would it last? its getting hard to buy powder and i might have found a source to buy it bulk.
original?----Buy BULK which i assume means that you bring your own container..
Get a case or more of used empty oil plastic bottles that eng oil comes in, they are heavy duty and sunlight can not get thru them.. rince each with a little gas to get the oil out,turn upside down and let drain and dry. them rince with hot soapy water, rince and let dry again, they should be ready for powder storage, if any gas smell is still in them, wash them again with the hot soapy water. label them

 

[Dickert54cal]

I will stick to my original thoughts. After our debate I took a trip to the experts at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland. A leading expert who I can not name due to security purposes said NO WAY!!!! The stuff you see sold in black plastic containers----I was informed the black has graphite added to it to prevent the static build ups. I was told anyone suggesting or giving the ok to store any explosive material in plastic is not giving sound advise ---despite the experiment shown.

 

[mike alexandre]

so when you find a source for anti static bottles/containers would you pm me please.

 

[jdixon]

I have copies of the test reports but cannot discuss them.

Only two brands of black powder come in tin cans these days. Those being GOEX and KIK out of Slovenia. The only reason that KIK uses tin cans is that GOEx had them make some small-arms powder back in 2000 and wanted it in tin cans.

For years, WANO, in Germany packed their small-arms powders in one Kg plastic bottles. Since at least the mid-1980's. A bp plant in Spain uses plastic bottles for a number of years.

The SNPE plant in France used some plastic bottles and some milk cartons, the cardboard kind.

Basically GOEX is the only one still using tin cans and KIK only because GOEX had insisted on it in 2000 and since they spent a bunch of money designing the cans and logos they stuck with the cans for a more recent shipment to another powder distributor in the U.S.

Going back around 30 years we had C&H in tin cans with plastic spouts in the cans.

Monk:

I have seen Swiss in cans pictured on the web - like the one below. Are these old photos? I would like to get a hold of one for my little collection if they are still around.

 

[Dickert54cal]

You might call Chuck at Dixons Muzzleloading in Kempton PA and see if his are sold in the can. I have a friend who was just up that way visiting his daughter in college and bought 4 lbs. As for the graphite bottles?? I dont know where you can buy them empty but imagaine the pyrodex and 777 sold in these types of containers can be reused for storage. HMMMM :hmm: Next time Im at the range Im going to ask the guys tossing them out if I can have them....I could then store my BP in them or pass them along to oters.... :hatsoff:

 

[Mad Monk]

JR,

When the first shipment of the Swiss came into the U.S. GOEX was acting as their U.S. distributor. It came into the U.S. in bulk.

GOEX had cans and packaging made up. The first stuff out was in these cans with GOEX ID on them. Then what was the Elephant Black Powder Company took over the Swiss powder. Stick on labels were made up to cover the GOEX ID with the Elephant Black Powder Company ID.

Then you will see some cans with no stick on labels with the Elephant ID.

in mid-2001 the Swiss powder came into the U.S. in the plastic bottles.

You only see the cans for the period 1999 to mid-2001.

 

[Tumblernotch]

"1. I store in the original cans. They are designed to unravel on explosion and not frag. I know because I've tested hundreds of them. DO NOT USE PLASTIC OR VYNIL BAGS, both can conduct static electricty and can blow a charge."

I prefer to use the original cans as well. But I found out years ago that they can fragment at least partially. I shot an "empty" can with a .303 British rifle once and to my surprise it blew up. All that was in it was maybe a half grain or so of powder and I guess the sides were still coated with dust. Since I used a jacketed SP round I can only assume that enough heat was generated to ignite the dust. I was about 25 yards away and a few seconds after it went off, the top landed at my feet. The explosion re-shaped the can into a cylinder. The bottom stayed connected at the ends and separated along the long sides. The top blew completely off. It's obvious that the can will separate at the solder joints and sort of unravel, but you may still have a few pieces flying. I still have the can and if I can find it I'll take a picture and post it. Several people told me there was no way I could explode it in that manner but when I showed them the can all they could do was shake their heads. If any of you can come up with another probable cause for this, let me know. Other than heat from the bullet, I can't think of any other way.

As for plastic and vinyl bags, Goex ships their bulk powder in them (inside a cardboard box), at least according to their website. Back in the 80's, for a while it was the only way the reenacting unit I was in could get it. We saved all of our old powder cans and re-packed it as soon as we could. One gun shop in PA was buying all the cans we could bring in for 10 cents apiece. He couldn't get it in cans either. I still save my old cans just in case something like that happens again.

 

[Dickert54cal]

Im glad you made that post. I forgot about how dangerous just the trace amounts left in an empty contained can possibly be...I wanted to fill my powder horn to the top since it is kept inside. My friends (two experts) shoot off lots of black powders---its their job to test ALL of them--Im talking when one of them orders and detonates this stuff its in 1000 pound increments or more at times....Man Id love to see that.