Powerbelts & Powder Loads.

[Fireman1049]

i am very new to black powder.
i have a T/C .54 cal. percussion cap. double trigger. it has adjustable rear sight, synthetic ramrod, lots of brass, and a brass door on the stock..

i have a couple questions.

1st question.
i purchased 348 gr powerbelts to shoot with.
i have been shooting them with the plastic wadding on the bottom of the bullet with out ussing an oil patch. is this ok to do? i clean and oil with Super Lube after every shot. do i leave the plastic wadding on or remove it and use an oil patch?? im going to purchase some sabots for deer hunting. do i leave the wadding on or off? do i need to use an oil patch with those as well??

2nd question.
i am shooting Hodgdon pyrodex RS with these power belts. i am shooting 125 gr. is this too much much?? it shoots good at 40 yards. im mainly getting accustomed to the way the gun handles with the powder load right now.. im going to work on groupings at 50-80 yards.

thank you in advance for your help..

 

[paulvallandigham]

John: Welcome to the forum. Now, put away everything you think you learned shooting modern cartridge guns. Thank you.

That .54 barrel is larger in diameter than most modern rifle bullets will be after striking game.

Without knowing what the Rate of Twist of your barrel is, ( I suspect its 1:48", but it can be 1:60"), its hard to tell if those long heavy bullets will shoot to any kind of group.

MOST OF ALL, heavy bullets like your Powerbelts, ARE SIMPLY NOT NEEDED to kill game with your gun.

Yes, a 125 grain charge of RS is a very heavy powder charge to use with a 345 grain bullet. HAVE YOU DONE ANY PENETRATION TESTING? If you fire that bullet with only 50 grains of powder, you will still send the bullet completely through a soft skinned animal like deer.

You indicate you want to use the gun to shoot game at 5-=80 yards. Try shooting a Patched Round Ball, .530" diameter, with a .-15, -018, or .020" thick patch fabric. Use spit, or while hunting, a Non-petroleum based oil lube on/in the patch.

The round ball for a .54 caliber gun weighs 230 grains. That is more than 1/2 OUNCE of lead you are sending down range at game. TRUST US when we tell you that it will both EXPAND even larger- to about .70 caliber-- and still go completely through a deer at those range limits! A soft lead ball expands, even at very low velocities, where most bullets, including your power points, don't expand unless they hit a heavy leg bone, or shoulder bone. They just zip right through.

With a PRB, a powder charge of 50 grains of RS will be a nice target load, and a charge of 80 grains will be a great hunting load. To tune your gun for the best accuracy, start with these recommendations, and go up and down in 5 grain increments. Do 5 round groups, off a steady rest, at no more than 50 yds. at first to find out what load seems to group the best. Then, and only then, move back to 100 yards, and test the load again. Do some more " tweaking " with the powder charges and patch thickness.


Buy Dutch Schoultz's Black powder rifle accuracy system, for $15.00. Its the best investment you can make to learn how to find the most accurate load for your gun(s).
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

You will need to learn to read your spent patches, but its not difficult, particularly if you have Dutch's materials. He also teaches you what you need to know about patches, and lubes.

A gun does NOT have to dislocate your shoulder to be accurate, or be adequate for hunting large game. A bullet gun, MLer or smokeless has its place for hunting dangerous game, but not for deer at ranges under 100 yds. We have many members here who hunted for years with their favorite smokeless powder rifles, only to turn to BP to put the "fun " back into the sport.

Find a Black Powder gun club near you, and find other shooters. They can help teach you. They can also help you get BLACK POWDER.

 

[longcruise]

The only thing I know about powerbelst is what I've learned talking with and shooting with other people who use them. They seem to wipe with a wet patch between shots and shoot them with the plastic skirt on.

Your 125 charge is certainly more than adequate. Anything down to about 80 should work pretty well with that weight of bullet. The top end should be determined by the manufacturers max recommended load or your tolerance for recoil.
Whichever comes first!

So, now I'm going to initiate the inevitable theme that this thread will take on! :haha: Try shooting round balls! Not just because they are "traditional", but because they are effective. Also, your .54 calls out for a round ball. Shooting the size bullets that have favorable ballistics in a .54 size calls for a rather large bullet and the recoil that goes with it. :shocked2: Then, there is the practical aspect of costs. You can shoot all day long with balls for the same or less than you would spend to shoot 20 power belts. Also, those 350 to 500 grain slugs are Mastadon loads. :shocked2: Your .54 with a round ball is proven to be deadly on anything up to moose. Probably a grizz as well if you have shorts that will hold enough to try it. :haha:

Not going into the discussion of $**ots, etc., cause they are prohibited in discussion on this forum.

 

[410-er]

Stick with round balls,patches,and real blackpowder and you do just fine.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Power belt bullets have not worked very well in any rifle I ever worked with to include traditional and modern rifles. Try the Hornady great plains 390 grain HP bullet with a felt wad over powder. I've had great luck in 54's using 120 grains of 2F triple seven in TC Hawken rifles.
Concials normally shoot better on the high end of powder charges. Stay with in what ever charges the maker of your rifles recommends. Round balls work pretty well for a lot of people here as well.

 

[hrchotaw]

My son shot a doe last year at 50 yards with a powerbelt. Followed a blood trail for 1 1/2 miles,shot clean through both lungs,same size entry and exit holes. It wasn't fun! Try a patched round ball!

 

[Little Wattsy]

My son shot a doe last year at 50 yards with a powerbelt. Followed a blood trail for 1 1/2 miles,shot clean through both lungs,same size entry and exit holes. It wasn't fun! Try a patched round ball!

Sorry but NO animal is going anywhere NEAR that far "shot clean through both lungs" :bull:

BUT to the point....Hollow based connicals of any kind, but expecially powerbelts CAN be subject to blow by..Or the gas from the powder going off can burn through and past the the base of the bullet and then you have accuracy issues....For ANY hunting load I would suggest dropping back to around 80 grians and work up at 5 grain intervals to just see where you get your best 25 yard group.
I have three .54 "hunters" and all of them seem to like 90 grains of Pyrodex RS. Killing the deer was easy; I was impressed when that shot clean through the neck of a mature buffalo.

Next..I have lernt the hard way that cheaper is better here...Powerbelts are expensive, Hornady Great Plain connicles are cheaper and just as good or gooder...AND Round Balls (thats what I kilt the buffalo with) are good too. Round balls, however, are pennies on the dollar in comparison. 20 Powerbelts = $20.00....100 Round balls = $15.00....Pour your OWN round balls = $2.00 to $3.00 per hundred conservatively...

The mainest point though focus more on accuracy at or above 70 grains of powder and you will be better served then trying to see how much powder you can get on the barrel. :grin:

 

[hrchotaw]

It seemed like a mile and a half but I know for a fact it was over 1600 feet as that is the length of the field we followed her across.Sorry for my mistatement! In the future I think I may just read!I will abstain from making any statements unless I have verified with a recognized authorized measuring device! I have first hand witnessed this kill,you kind sir did not! I bow to your knowledge of all deer kills!

 

[Little Wattsy]

It seemed like a mile and a half but I know for a fact it was over 1600 feet as that is the length of the field we followed her across.Sorry for my mistatement! In the future I think I may just read!I will abstain from making any statements unless I have verified with a recognized authorized measuring device! I have first hand witnessed this kill,you kind sir did not! I bow to your knowledge of all deer kills!

It MAY have gone the mile and a half just not with both lungs deflated. :wink:

 

[hrchotaw]

Is there a section on here for anatomy classes,as I made the mistake of thinking if it went in one side of the chest and out the other about mid ways up that should be both lungs. I thought we were trying to help someone with a decision on powerbelt bullets.I still think my misstatement,based on ignorance and stupidity soundly demonstrated what had been stated before,they will pass clean through without expanding enough to transfer the shock energy inside of the animal. I still like a patched round hunk of lead,both for performance and economy!

 

[Little Wattsy]

Is there a section on here for anatomy classes,as I made the mistake of thinking if it went in one side of the chest and out the other about mid ways up that should be both lungs. I thought we were trying to help someone with a decision on powerbelt bullets.I still think my misstatement,based on ignorance and stupidity soundly demonstrated what had been stated before,they will pass clean through without expanding enough to transfer the shock energy inside of the animal. I still like a patched round hunk of lead,both for performance and economy!

Sooooooo are you saying that you prefer the round ball? :haha: :haha: :haha:
Im sorry! :wink:

BTW, me too BUT I will admit it is more for the emotional and economical reasons then for created "preformance" reasons. :thumbsup:

 

[hrchotaw]

I thunk I up and went and forgot what we was talking about!I'm from kentucky!! Yep,thats all I use!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I once shot a deer broadside, but got a High hit, that missed both lungs, and only grazed the bottom of the spine. The deer dropped and stayed down long enough for me to get closer and put a finishing shot into him. If my slug had not temporarily paralyzed the deer, I would have been in for a very long chase, and tracking problem.

Of course, I didn't learn what happened until I field dressed him, and found both lungs intact! :shocked2: The lungs angle downward from the neck, so there is a gap between the top of the lungs, and the backbone just about centered above the heart.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Paul is right on this one. The shot over the lungs and under the spine is a hit most guys sware was a double lung and it is not. The fact that most of the time this hit yanks the rug gives most guys a false sense of a good hit.
I have killed about 75 head of big game. I can say for a fact that any animal shot through the lungs can only run as far as adrenaline can push them. Some can go a bit farther than others (antelope vs Moose) but anything over 100 yards is an exaggeration of what happened. a half inch hole through the lungs is not a flesh wound. under the spine and over the lungs can be just a wound that an animal can heal from. Ron

 

[Kentuckywindage]

No wad or patch needed with powerbelts, the plasic skirt is a gas seal/slip fit conical. When fired the bullet itself balloons into the rifling and seals off more gas. Typically you can get 3+ shots off without having to swab between shots.

Your powder IS to much. You should back down to 80gr RS and take 3 shots without swabbing and see how it does. Go up to 90gr, take 3 more shots * after the barrel has been cleaned from the previous 3 shots of course!)

Are the powerbelts copper plated or are they the pure lead series? It does help if you pop the base of the powerbelt on and off a few times to insure proper release of the gas seal.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Power belts shoot better at lower powder charges. Have heard plenty of claims of no expansion or way too much. Was told my a guy who is in te know, that expansion with these bullet was not reliable. Because they load easy, lots of new shooters start with them. Seems lots of stores push them also. Every time I am at the range and find a guy having problems using them, a switch of bullet normally correct the problem.

 

[Fireman1049]

thanks everyone for all the help.. now im going to go out and shop for lead balls and possibly a mold to make my own, and a nice bag for my BP supplies while im out in the field.. hopefully santa will bring some of the stuff i need for BP..

im deffinately going to go out and shoot those powerbelts at lower powder grains.. see how they do for grouping and then move up to the higher grains.. :hatsoff:

 

[Fireman1049]

One other question for now...
is there anywhere in NW Ohio i can go for Black Powder Supplies??

 

[Anonym]

Aside from the hijack, it sounds to me like he has a .54cal Hawken given his description. Doesn't T/C recommend powder charges of 100 grains or less?

That being said, I have never been a fan of PowerBelts. They have never grouped in any of my rifles and do not have any benefit over a patched round ball or saboted bullet.

I have to agree with everyone in trying out the PRB first, and you shouldn't be shooting more than 90 grains for a hunting load. If you ABSOLUTELY feel you need something "better", try out some sabots before sticking w/ the PowerBelt. I've thought about the cheap, lead sabots that you can get from Cabelas/Bass Pro as a viable option to BRB before committing to a jacketed pistol bullet in a plastic sabot.

Just my $0.02...

 

[R.M.]

Why are plastic things being disused here?