Practical corosivity of BP

[Black Hand]

! I come home from a match and spend a couple hours doing all the cleanup necessary.

It takes you a couple of hours to clean your gun? From start to finish, I might spend 10 minutes...and no problems with rust.

 

[Carbon 6]

It takes you a couple of hours to clean your gun? From start to finish, I might spend 10 minutes...and no problems with rust.

Same here, But I do remember years ago that it took me a lot longer and I hated cleaning . Now it's a breeze and I really enjoy it.

 

[Col. Batguano]

You make a good point about the lube being transferred to the barrel walls during loading. Not a bad idea to have bare steel protected from humidity somehow. Obviously the lube should be something other than water based!

 

[Juice Jaws]

I come home from a match and spend a couple hours doing all the cleanup necessary.

Couple of hours does seem like a long time. I am not as fast as Black Hand, takes me about 20 minutes and another 10 to reload the shooting bag for the next shoot.

 

[Stony Broke]

I do spend a couple hours getting everything back clean and ready for the next shoot. I take several guns to shoot at each match, including rifles and pistols, so it's not a couple hours on each gun. I know some friends that do a quickie clean up at the range after the matches and call it good...but I guess I'm a little overly protective with mine. It's funny how everyone has their own ways of loading, their own preferences for patch lubes, and all kinds of personal preferences in their shooting and cleaning of muzzleloaders. I guess it's whatever works for you !
Whatever I do, I guess it works okay for me and I have been using my preferred methods for years. I shot in four legs of a match and walked away with four blue ribbons.

 

[Felix the Cat]

The residues from firing black powder and Pyrodex are the most corrosive. Both contain sulfur. The residue of sulfur can be very corrosive in high humidity.

All black powder substitutes except for Black Horn 209 contain potassium perchlorate. The residues left by potassium perchlorate contribute little to the corrosiveness of those powders

I have to disagree with you a bit there.. Chlorine ions from Perchlorate are very reactive! Pyrodex residue is much more corrosive than BP! The residue from pyro and flash powder containing perchlorate is extremely corrosive!

 

[Okie Hog]

Felix: Disagree all you want. Some black powder lovers blame potassium perchlorate for the corrosiveness of Pyrodex. IMO: It ain't so. i've used large quantities of both black powder and Pyrodex. The residues are equally corrosive.

Riddle me this, if potassium perchlorate is so corrosive, why is the residue from firing Black MZ not very corrosive at all? Black MZ and the other APP powders contain large quantities of potassium perchlorate. Ditto for Triple Seven which also contains large quantities of potassium perchlorate.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Pyrodex is the real "corrosive" fouler. )-:
Triple 7 seems ok and isn't as hard on brass cases as BP corrosion-wise. But I had some really bad luck with Pyrodex corroding under a layer of RIG grease in a Sharp's barrel years ago.
Stick to black/clean with water/don't use detergent....
Dave

A classic example of not using animal of vegetable base lubricants and why in the day only animal and vegetable fats were used Dave.

B.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Have to say.....I used pyrodex for years but now only use black.
Pyrodex is definitely more corrosive period.

B.

 

[Okie Hog]

A classic example of not using animal of vegetable base lubricants and why in the day only animal and vegetable fats were used Dave.

Yep, an improperly cleaned rifle "protected" by vegetable or animal based lubricant will also rust. i've seen too many trashed bores that rusted under bore butter.

Petroleum based lubricants simply were not available until about 1850. Even they the were not universally available. Folks used whatever vegetable or animal fats they could obtain.

In the early 1960s to mid 1970s i owned dozens of original muzzleloaders dating from about 1750-1900. The vast majority had trashed bores. Notable exceptions were three muzzleloaders found by a trash truck driver friend in a dumpster in a VA suburb of Washington, DC. The bores of two were completely filled with tallow or lard, the other was filled with unsalted butter. One was built by Hacker Martin. The bores of all were pristine.

My muzzleloader mentor was nearly 80 years old when i met him. He continued to routinely win black powder shooting matches until about age 85. He used sperm whale oil for patch lube.

 

[yakipreacher]

I'd be curious about you all's experience in this thread with triple 7? They say it won't corrode. It seems to be more like smokeless powder? Has anyone left it in barrels for a period of time? Outcome? Thanks!

 

[Carbon 6]

Riddle me this, if potassium perchlorate is so corrosive, why is the residue from firing Black MZ not very corrosive at all? Black MZ and the other APP powders contain large quantities of potassium perchlorate. Ditto for Triple Seven which also contains large quantities of potassium perchlorate.

Semantics, Corrosive is corrosive and they are all still corrosive. Just because something may be considered "less corrosive" does not mean that it is better. "Less corrosive" can have it's own drawbacks, like being harder to remove the corrosive residue. This is where Real Black powder reigns supreme, It cleans up beautifully with plain water.

The biggest problem with anything that it considered "virtually non-corrosive" is that people think it is better and safer, thus they don't have to worry about being diligent cleaning their guns.
That line of thinking is incorrect.

 

[Black Hand]

I do spend a couple hours getting everything back clean and ready for the next shoot. I take several guns to shoot at each match, including rifles and pistols, so it's not a couple hours on each gun. I know some friends that do a quickie clean up at the range after the matches and call it good...but I guess I'm a little overly protective with mine. It's funny how everyone has their own ways of loading, their own preferences for patch lubes, and all kinds of personal preferences in their shooting and cleaning of muzzleloaders. I guess it's whatever works for you !

That makes a little more sense. However, there have been past posts where people have spent considerable time cleaning one gun...

 

[Carbon 6]

They say it won't corrode. !

Who is they?

 

[Carbon 6]

I think folks are conflating unrelated issues like;
Time and efficacy
Lube and corrosion
etc.

There are many reasons why your gun can rust. Many can be self induced. Each case is unique.

 

[Dave Orchard]

Surface grind a piece of ferrous metal that is long enough to "flash" equall amt.s of black, Pyrodex, triple 7, etc.
Then let your test plate sit in a humid atmosphere or a rust blue/browning sweat cabinet.
I'de be interested in hearing the results, & I bet others would too ("For SCIENCE!" ;-) )
Dave

 

[Okie Hog]

Surface grind a piece of ferrous metal that is long enough to "flash" equall amt.s of black, Pyrodex, triple 7, etc.

Several years ago i did that-twice.

1. Took 4" square pieces of mild steel plate.

2. Buffed the plates bright.

3. Covered the plates with powder about 1/8" deep and burned same.

Plates sat under an open shed through rain and shine for a summer month. Little or no difference in the rusting caused by black powder and Pyrodex, Plates with residue of Triple Seven and Pinnacle powders were not nearly as rusty.

 

[Carbon 6]

Plates with residue of Triple Seven and Pinnacle powders were not nearly as rusty.

This is not meant to be critical of you Okie Hog, but it raises an important point.

"Not nearly as rusty" is not a selling point. It just means that stupid people will think they can get away with not cleaning their guns, and thereby ruin them when they discover them rusted and pitted 6 months down the road.

Part of me smiles when I think of that happening to the guys who don't shoot traditional rifles. However, it is detrimental to both industries. This is probably a contributing factor to why powders like Pinnacle, APP, Black MZ, etc.. have all ceased to exist.

 

[hanshi]

Stony Broke is correct. BP is not corrosive itself but the fouling is hygroscopic and THAT is what will rust guns. This is also why those in arid climates can take their time with gun cleaning.

 

[Ketchakah]

See? ya CAN teach and old horse a new dance.
I Always thought the whole purpose of Pyrodex was its NON-corrosive property. I have never used it as i have also heard it does not work well with Flinters. And... I like BP.

Learned something new.