Pre-French and Indian Horns?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Well hi. I am having a Fusil de Chasse being built for me, and a, just curious about what kinds of horns would be appropriate for such usage in the 1730-1750 period? I am thinking of an explorer around the Fort de Charters area in Illinois pre or early French & Indian.

I’m looking to buy a horn but don’t have much to go on as far as features and how they would’ve looked in the time. Plain or skrimshawed, size, decoration, etc. Hoping some veterans can help a younger guy here, hope I am worthy.

-Smokey

 

[French Colonial]

Fort de Chartres, not Charters

Any of these except for the one with the metal spout.

The second one down on the right and the bottom on the right are originals

The second from the bottom on the left is an original and the one below it a copy of same.

 

[tenngun]

Horns as above are well known and I would expect in French Illinois 1730ish this would have been most common
Horn, wood and metal flask were common in a square flare shape in eighteenth century. I would not be surprised if some out of style seventeenth century styles would have still been seen.
Jackware was very popular at this time. And powder canteens are referenced. I can’t prove it but would not be surprised if these were jackware.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Fort de Chartres, not Charters

View attachment 116515

Any of these except for the one with the metal spout.

The second one down on the right and the bottom on the right are originals

The second from the bottom on the left is an original and the one below it a copy of same.

For those raised in the vicinity of the old French fort and as written on the old British maps, you won't find residents of Randolph County calling the fort anything but Fort Charters.

The sign at the Fort and to those of us who reenact at the Fort, it is Fort de Chartres, although when the British originally took possession, it was Fort Cavendish. That didn't last long. Very quickly it became Fort Charters.

I wish I could help @Smokey Plainsman, but powder containers of the 1730's to the 1750's are difficult to determine provenance. The Milice at the Fort might have a pulverin, a wooden flask. Certainly simple horns are also likely.

A couple of years ago there was a topic on the French pulverin with pictures. The Rifle Shoppe may have parts.
Original Powder Horn/Flask | The Muzzleloading Forum

A search on the Forum will come up with several topics, better than a google search for pulverin

 

[Grenadier1758]

Here is a link to the Rifle Shop's parts set:
The Rifle Shoppe, Inc. - French Pulverin Powder Horn Set (547)

 

[French Colonial]

For those raised in the vicinity of the old French fort and as written on the old British maps, you won't find residents of Randolph County calling the fort anything but Fort Charters.

Yes, but they were wrong then and they are wrong now, no offence meant but no need to perpetuate the misspelling and pronunciation.

 

[tenngun]

Do you hav inalienable rights or unalienable rights?
That fellow who founded Roanoke, got a city named after him but how he spell his name?
Is it journey to the center of the earth or journey to the centre of the earth
Briton had a Queen Victoria long before England famous one. Fought the Romans and we don’t know how she died Been two thousand years now of spelling it differs way, all they can agree on is it started with a B

 

[andy52]

Most of the time when I go to Fort De Chartres I dress in a more gentlemanly fashion. With waistcoat and dresscoat, no place for a shooting bag, horn, and musket.... I do however carry a very nice small sword and a belt knife just in case.

 

[tenngun]

There are a lot of disreputable folks there… I know

 

[andy52]

Fort de Chartres, not Charters

View attachment 116515

Any of these except for the one with the metal spout.

The second one down on the right and the bottom on the right are originals

The second from the bottom on the left is an original and the one below it a copy of same.

I not going to dispute the correctness on the horns, the top left one is very nice. The third one down on the left might be suspect.
Buffalo weren't that common in the time frame there, now granted it could have been carried from the west by any number of adventurous types.

 

[andy52]

There are a lot of disreputable folks there… I know

Like me........

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

For those raised in the vicinity of the old French fort and as written on the old British maps, you won't find residents of Randolph County calling the fort anything but Fort Charters.

The sign at the Fort and to those of us who reenact at the Fort, it is Fort de Chartres, although when the British originally took possession, it was Fort Cavendish. That didn't last long. Very quickly it became Fort Charters.

I wish I could help @Smokey Plainsman, but powder containers of the 1730's to the 1750's are difficult to determine provenance. The Milice at the Fort might have a pulverin, a wooden flask. Certainly simple horns are also likely.

A couple of years ago there was a topic on the French pulverin with pictures. The Rifle Shoppe may have parts.
Original Powder Horn/Flask | The Muzzleloading Forum

A search on the Forum will come up with several topics, better than a google search for pulverin

I agree. I grew up 30 minutes from the Fort and have seen it spelt Charters many times.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Smokey Plainsman, now that you are across the state from us, are you planning to come to any events at Fort de Chartres?

You may be more likely to find a pulverin for sale on a trade blanket at Fort de Chartres than at Fort Osage.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

@Smokey Plainsman, now that you are across the state from us, are you planning to come to any events at Fort de Chartres?

You may be more likely to find a pulverin for sale on a trade blanket at Fort de Chartres than at Fort Osage.

Absolutely yes! I’ve only ever been to 2 rondys at the Fort. Hoping they’re still robustly attended by vendors and craftsman as they used to be. I’ll be there for sure! It’s very close to my home as well.

 

[French Colonial]

I not going to dispute the correctness on the horns, the top left one is very nice. The third one down on the left might be suspect.
Buffalo weren't that common in the time frame there, now granted it could have been carried from the west by any number of adventurous types.

There were eastern buffalo so the horn would have been correct, many documented cases of the Daniel Boone types using the wool from buffalo for spinning etc.

 

[andy52]

Corre

There were eastern buffalo so the horn would have been correct, many documented cases of the Daniel Boone types using the wool from buffalo for spinning etc.

Correct, they were in much decline by the mid 18th but could have been there in the early days of Fort De Chartres.
Jacques Marquette described seeing Bison and elk here in the flood plains of the Mississippi where I live.

 

[French Colonial]

Yes, the buffalo would have definitely been in and around Fort de Chartres and on the St Genevieve side as well.
Many descriptions of the long hunters shooting buffalo and only taking the best parts, and before anyone decries the waste, there was no way to carry that much meat from an adult buffalo along with problems of preservation of said meat while traveling.

We are all so fortunate that in the late 1800's these magnificent creatures were preserved, I know of several places out west where they have herds. Land between the Lakes is the only place in the east where I know they have them, probably other places in the east I am unaware of.

 

[andy52]

No free-ranging bison east of Missouri to my knowledge. There are some private herds in Missouri I've bought one from a private ranch. They let me shoot it but it was really a lame sort of thing. Didn't cost more I was just buying one anyway. Walked out into a field they point at one, I used my Hatfield .54 mountain rifle it went boom the bison just looked around like what was that?
Rocked back and forth and fell in a heap,

 

[andy52]

Double post, I have no idea why.

 

[French Colonial]

Land between the lakes buffalo are not free ranging but the area they are in is pretty big and in one part you can drive through it. One bull was so large he made me feel uneasy when he eyeballed me in our Chevy Silverado, if he decided to do anything I think we would have lost.

I shot a buffalo out near Dodge City Kansas years ago

Rode the horses out to the herds, he had about 400 buffalo on the property.
Fences were way off in the distance, it was a hoot!

Sorry OP about hijacking your thread, now back to your regular scheduled programming......