Problem with a lock

[Steve French]

Hey Everyone, I've been a member here for awhile now and it's I do something here.
I have an older CVA flintlock Kentucky Rifle kit that I built back in the middle 1970's. The gun works and shoots very well, so good that I wouldn't want to be shooting at myself from 100 yards away. But I do have a small problem with the lock. When it's at half-cock, the flint rests on the frizzen and the frizzen doesn't close properly on the pan. I have looked at the back of the lock to see if there's anyway to adjust the drawback and I saw none. At full-cock, it works fine, but it's not safe to carry it like that. I have to use a small flint and set the flint deep in the jaws, to the point that it's almost steel striking steel, the flint still rests on the frizzen, but it does close. My question is, Is there any way to adjust the half-cock position without replacing parts? If needed I can take a picture of the backside of the lock and post it.
Thank you for any help.

Pustic

 

[LRB]

If the half cock notch is pretty deep, you can put a block of some sort in it to stop the sear where ever you might want it. A little there goes a long way towards getting the flint back from the frizzen, however you must be sure that the sear engages enough to still be safe. As far as the frizzen fit, in order to not bring the frizzen even closer to the flint, measure the largest gap, then soft solder a piece of brass plate, or steel if you wish, over the pan that is large enough to cover the area covered by the frizzen base, and is a tad thicker than the gap. Useing transfer color on the frizzen base, start filing this plate down where the color transfers until you have a good fit. It is a long and tedious process, but that is the only solution I have ever come up with. I just finished one myself this last Monday. Leave the frizzen spring in place. If there is even a tiny bit of slop in the screw hole, it can cause you to still have a gap when you think it is fitted otherwise. I would suggest doing this first, as the frizzen will be set back a bit after you have taken care of the gap problem, and you may not need to block the half cock.
After rereading your post, you may not have a frizzen fit problem, but doing as above is another way of getting the frizzen a little more away from the flint. Your only other alternative would be to heat bend the cock to where it would be more away from the frizzen. It might need to go up as well as away to get a good strike on the frizzen, but you would have to study on these options, and determine for yourself which would be better for your circumstance, or maybe a little of all.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I had that problem with my first flinter also a cva. A shorter flint. Also, to gain some room to move the flint back slightly, take the flint and leather out of the jaws. find the exact center, where the leather fold backs against the jaw screw and punch a round hole, perhaps 1/4 inch. The flint can then be moved back in the jaws by a 1/32 to 1/16, depending on the leather thickness. try to maintain a small space between the flint and the screw when re-installing, but it should gain you a short distance.

 

[Birddog6]

If you have the flint in bevel down, that usually makes them touch sooner & hit higher. If so you may try turning it over or putting a notch in the jaw leather at the jaw screw & that will let the flint go back just a tad further.

Keith Lisle

 

[J.D.]

Many modern locks are designed with the cock to sit close to the frizzen, at half cock. The theory is that the closer the flint sits to the frizzen, at full cock, the faster the lock will be, which means that the half cock notch positions the cock so close to the frizzen, that there is no clearance for the flint, at half cock.

While the lock is faster, to a point, this configuration makes it difficult to close the pan when hunting, for example.

Other than performing the fixes suggested in earlier posts, there isn't much that can be done with these locks.

There are NO replacement parts that will correct the condition, other than a very expensive custom made tumbler, so ya just gotta live with it, unless you can make a new tumbler.

IMHO, bending the cock back, to gain more clearance, will, probably, cause the flint to strike close to a 90 degree angle to the frizzen, which will only damage flints and reduce sparks.

God bless

 

[Birddog6]

The only other options would be find a used lock off one that you could tinker with. I see them on eBay now & then. Or buy a RPL lock to go on it. If I was going to shoot & use the rifle, I would probably go the RPL route & not even mess with that Spanish lock.

Keith Lisle

 

[Steve French]

Thank you everyone for your help. I can use it the way it is, there's just not much flint to strike the frizzen. I'll take in account all of the advice here and see if any will solve the problem. I have looked at other locks at the gun shows. I should take my lock with me so I can match it up and get the proper size lock that will fit. I also own a T/C Hawken flintlock and have no problems with that. Thank you all again and with this knowledge, I'll see what I can do.

Pustic

 

[rich pierce]

you could get a new cock without a square hole and re-time the lock that way.

 

[rafterob]

You could do what Rich says or if you don't mind spending a little money to save the work buy an L&R replacement lock.

 

[Bill Hall]

Agreed. If you just bought a new L and R replacement, you'd never need to worry again. Those CVA locks aren't the greatest in the world, and I wonder if the same problem existed when it was new. Those tumbler notches and sears on CVA locks get somewhat bludgened after a while, which will cause the cock to creep forward. The notch opens up a bit and the sear gets a little shorter. Even if you get this problem fixed, it's likely that another will pop up in the future. Like you mentioned, those CVA's can be real shooters, but the locks just don't last. That's why there is such a demand for replacements. You'll have a much more reliable rifle if you throw that lock away. Bill

 

[J.D.]

Agreed that the L&R replacement is a much better lock, but there is no guarantee that it won't have the same problem with clearance for the flint, at half cock.

Maybe someone who owns a RPL lock with chime in.

God bless

 

[Steve French]

The next gunshow that comes to town, I'll take the lock with me and see if anyone has one that will match in size. Thank you.

 

[Steve French]

The frizzen fits perfect, no problem with that. I've put 4f powder in it, turned it over and nothing fell out. I think it does have a deep cut in the half cock position and I'll try that. I do remember looking at it and thinking that it looked deep. Would something like a small drop of liquid steel work if I put it in and even it out ?

 

[Birddog6]

Liquid Steel us not gonna hold up. Personally, I have never seen one of those CVA Spanish flint locks work good or hold up well. The Spanish precussion locks from the 70's era hold up for years & years, but the flintlocks just never did well. IMHO. It may get you by, but if you shoot it allot, it is going to test your patience for sure. :shake:
It all boils down to whether you want to spend a few $ & get it operating correctly & consistently, or put up with it what ya have. Tho I am not a L&R fan by any means, their RPL lock is a much better lock than the Spanish one you have, & I feel could get the rifle shooting quite well & with much less lock issues. RPL has the only lock that is going to be close to the one you have, other than another Spanish lock from another CVA rifle..

Keith Lisle

 

[Steve French]

Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. I may be able to fine a good lock at the gun show. I'll take my lock with me and see if I can match it up. For as little as I use it, it will last forever, but I just want to improve on it.

Pustic

 

[CZMark]

My wife won a CVA Big Bore in a raffle quite a few years ago. The lock was horrible so the gun sat unused for years. I finally replaced the lock with an L&R RPL and now have no problems. I was also able to sell the old lock on ebay for over half of what the RPL cost, although I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy a CVA lock. :idunno:

 

[LRB]

I would suggest, that since you are prepared to buy a replacement, to just go ahead and try to make that one work. Very little to lose if you can't. Try blocking the half cock with J&B WELD, with a small, thin piece of steel in front of it to take the sear contact. Something kinda wedge shaped maybe.

 

[Zonie]

If it were my lock I don't think I would block off the half-cock notch with anything.

I might be tempted to place a very small piece of brass down in the bottom of the notch and epoxy it in place.
The purpose of this would be to limit the depth that the sear nose could enter the notch but the important thing here is to make sure that the sear nose does have full steel to steel engagement with the tumbler.

In other words, the nose of the sear must latch into the half-cock notch so there is no way that it can pop out of the notch on its own.

I suspect that the brass or steel piece needed in the bottom of the notch would only be about .010-.020 thick. (About 5 sheets of printer paper thick).

 

[LRB]

That was the idea Zonie. Block it enough to limit engagement, but still be in the safe zone.