"PURE LEAD..."

[Etienne Brule]

Hi,

I would like to know the reason(s) why we have to use "pure" lead with muzzleloader.

You have a wonderful forum.

Thank you

Etienne Brule

 

[fw707]

Etienne, the "pure" lead allows the patching material to embed itself into the ball and impart more of a spin as it leaves the barrel, which contributes to accuracy.
A very simple explanation, but some very knowledgeable folks will add to it I'm sure. :winking:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have been playing around with several different hardness of lead. In my gun I am using a Lee REAL 320 mould and a Lyman great plains 395. I started out with pure and got bad results. I started to go harder until I ran out of anything harder. The Lyman bullets were very hard to get down the barrel. The Lee bullets were easy to load no matter the hardness. I am using felt wads between the powder and the bullet. I am getting 2.5" to 3" groups at 100 yards. This is not as good as Hornady Great plains bullets but not bad. I also have started to use BPCR lube on my bullets. It comes in a tube form and costs 1.50 It shrunk my groups by 50% on the Lyman bullets, and about 25% on the lee.
I like the harder lead my self. I am now using reclaimed shot. It seems to pour the right weight for the mould. I just got a new batch of lube, and I am waiting for my Lyman mould. I sent it back because it would not throw a bullet .508 no matter what lead I used. I hope they send it back between .508 & .510
Ron

 

[carter]

the soft lead mushrooms best iln gaame but if your just shooting paper it's just a little harder on the barrel and wears it out sooner.

 

[fw707]

Etienne, welcome here too!! :grin:

 

[silverfox]

First off welcome to the forum. More good information here than you can get in a month of Sundays.
fw707 is right on. Idaho I don't think we are talking about conicals they are another animal that round balls. Flints why do you think pure lead would wear out a barrel faster than harder lead. Barrel wear would be patch material and lube because the lead should never touch the barrel. These are just my opinions.
Fox :thumbsup:

PS you can use harder lead in Muzzlerloaders you may get a small loss in accuracy as fw707 said.

 

[xxgrampa]

greetings etienne,

a most hardy wecome to you and to flint5. f5 thought he colud hide out but, we welcomed him anyway :grin: .

when lead bullets were first used, it was the way it came out of the ground. it was pure. after that, shooters started looking for purer lead. everyone wanted an edge and it was thiught pure lead was that edge.

old habits are hard to break, we still think softer is better. now some people are shooting harder balls and saying 'they shoot great' :shocked2:

sooo, i don't know the answer to your question.. :redface:

welcome to you and flint5 again. and ..ttfn..grampa..

 

[pulaski]

Idaho Ron , I seem to recall lead shot is hardened with arsenic . Not so sure I would breathe this vapor molding bullets . I would check with the various shot manufacturers to varify .

 

[Zonie]

As was mentioned above, the soft lead permits the patch to embed itself into the balls surface.
The ball itself deforms somewhat into the grooves as well.

About a month ago or so, the Bevel Brothers (writers for the National Muzzleloading Rifle Associations magazine Muzzleblasts) did some research on the use of harder lead balls as projectiles.

They found that with the proper patch thickness, the harder lead shot about as well as the pure lead, but the patch thickness had to be increased.
As I recall, they also found that decreasing the ball size slightly helped with loading the thicker patch.

After reading this it seemed to me that the ball hardness is just one more of the variables that can be changed when looking for the "best load" for a given rifle or pistol.

pulaski: I haven't heard of lead being alloyed with arsenic before.
According to the Materials Engineering book I have, lead is usually alloyed with Tin (which reduces the melting temperature), Antimony (which makes the alloy harder), Calcium (which raises the Tensile Strength) and Tellurium (which raises the Yield Strength).

zonie

 

[xxgrampa]

hi ho zonie.

arsenic was used to make the shot harden faster as it was dropped in the shot tower. helped to keep the shot rounder.

..tt.g..

 

[boar]

One thing when using harder lead it tends to not shrink down like softer lead and will get a little bit larger bullet. They don't fall out of mold, tend to won't to stick in mold. Dilly

 

[redwing]

They didn't have WW lead back in the day. But they did have pewter and they used this to pour RBs. So the old timers didn't always use pure lead. So far as hard lead wearing out barrels is not true provided you are using a patch. They shoot very well in a Smooth bore. I have a .62 which has fired many hard balls its not worn out. I took two places in the Wyoming State Shoot 2007, smooth bore shooting wheel weights. :thumbsup:

 

[50cal.cliff]

They didn't have WW lead back in the day. But they did have pewter and they used this to pour RBs. So the old timers didn't always use pure lead. So far as hard lead wearing out barrels is not true provided you are using a patch. They shoot very well in a Smooth bore. I have a .62 which has fired many hard balls its not worn out. I took two places in the Wyoming State Shoot 2007, smooth bore shooting wheel weights. :thumbsup:

Not trying to pirate this thread. My question goes aong with origional question. Got to thinking about this after reading Redwing's post. During the Civil War there were shortages of nearly everthing. Was there a lead shortage and if so what were they using for casting balls?
:hmm:

 

[fw707]

Zonie,
SnappinCaps posted a link and some info on arsenic in lead in this thread a few days ago:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/207003[/url]/

 

[Idaho Ron]

I guess I missed the part in his post where he said pure lead round balls only. Ron

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I know the South had no lead shortage anywhere near Virginia, there is a large deposit in that state. If memory serves Alabama has one also. there are smaller ones in NC, one near here,WNC.

 

[ldykeman]

There is a historic marker along a road near me, north of Pine Plains, NY. It marks the spot of old lead mines. An interesting aside is that it has been reported, over the years, that the Pine Plains area has a higher than average cancer rate. I wonder if there is any connection?
Larry

 

[Snakebite]

The gunsmith who built my first rifle when I was just a pilgrim to shooting BP told me that as long as you could groove the lead with your thumbnail, it was okay to shoot in my rifle. He told me you never wanted to used wheel weights or hard alloys. That was 30 years ago and I know somethings have changed, but I figure my rifle is still shooting good so it was pretty good advice. Just my opinion.

Chris

 

[CrackStock]

Obturation

The concept is that the pressures upon the lead round ball at loading and again at firing cause the lead to better seal into the rifling and thereby achieve better performance.

I have shot wheel weights, x-ray lead shielding and plumbers' lead and been able to make them all accurate. Adjustments had to be made in other components for the wheel weights, but it was manageable.

CS

 

[kayja]

there is another sign in Ancramdale,NY saying it is the site of the old Lead mines