I've only used tru-oil for finish on my firearms. But I came across an old can of pure linseed oil, and was wondering what the difference is between boiled and pure. It is dutch boy brand if that makes a difference.Thks guys for any info.
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pure vs boiled
- Thread starter wildeagle
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Pure linseed can be considered to never dry, just get gummy. Boiled may, or may not. At any rate it is not a good stock finish, and offers little, to no protection. It is not water proof, and barely water resistant. Original guns were finished with varnish, using linseed as a base, with driers, and other ingredients. Boiled linseed, mixed 50/50 with pure tung oil, then thinned with mineral sprits, or turpentine works well, but I would suggest trying Jim Chambers oil finish, which as I understand it is about the same, but with added driers. The linseed/tung mix dries to the touch in usually one, to two days. The Chambers in about a day. The Chambers is very thin, spreads easy, and soaks in very well. True oil works much better if it is thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine 50/50. Takes a lot of coats, but goes on much better than out of the bottle.
ssettle
40 Cal.
Wicks right about the linseed oil..it never fully dries. I have guns with the boiled linseed oil on and they sometimes feel tacky even after several years . You can get "LinSpeed" oil stock finish at some gun stores, it has the dryers in it and gives a nice durable finish.ssettle
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I've used everything from plain boiled linseed to Tru-oil and various other brands over the last 40 years and know it pretty well. I gotta say though, that after trying tung oil finish I like that a whole bunch better. I used the matte finish stuff from the local hardware store, and it not only looks better on a muzzleloader, it was lots easier to use. It comes in small bottle for not many bux, so it may be worth picking one up when you go shopping for Tru-oil or whatever. Try some of each on the inside of your barrel channel and see which you like best.
Below is a link to a site on our links page that gives details of the BLO/spar/varn finish I have used on several guns, some may want to try it.
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/oldfinish.htm
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/oldfinish.htm
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Hi Wideagle- contrary to what some of the posters say linseed oil does indeed dry and is classed as a drying oil( unlike canola or olive oils which are non drying)if it does not dry it has been cut or contaminated with something else.It was/is the major drying oil used in Fine Art oil painting for the last 600 years.Boiled linseed (and stand oil linseed) are polymerized linseed oils (the processes's to make each are different but both employ heat)the polymerization makes for quicker dying and a stronger linoxin or dried skin.The polymerized linseed oils will darken with age more than pure linseed.You can add various dyers (lead acetate dryer, terebin etc)to linseed oil to make it dry more quickly but the real 'trick'to using linseed as a timber finish is to thin it extensively with say mineral turpentine ( or gum turpentine) and apply a number of coats, allowing each to dry, over time.This thinning allows the oil to more fully penetrate into the wood.The last thing you want is a thickfilm of linseed on top of the wood, and if any type of linseed is used straight, or thickly without thinning, it will take days to dry.I still have some of my fathers old wooden handled tools ( axe, pick , hammer) that have only ever been treated with linseed thinned with turps and are in remarkable condition.As noted by previous posters boiled linseed was the basic element of most old varnishes ( boiled linseed to which various natural resins and driers were added)But as for gunstocks etc, as previous posters have also noted , there are better and easier proprietary products to use--cheers zoddwildeagle said:
50cal.cliff
58 Cal.
I done a set of shelves for myself in Boiled Linseed for myself one time. I loved the color it brought out in the wood but, when the humidty was right they had a sticky residue too them. Personally I didn't like the results. Could be because I didn't cut the linseed oil with anything as I remember! Just foood for thought.
I use alot of the tru-oil and also use tongue oil, about the same stuff. Both water resistant and easy to work with.
I use alot of the tru-oil and also use tongue oil, about the same stuff. Both water resistant and easy to work with.
While I'm not all that knowledgeable about linseed oil, it is my understanding that modern BLO is not really boiled, but has driers added.
Some ML builders "reboil" BLO to properly polimerize the oil prior to using it as a finish, often adding other driers in the process.
Pure linseed oil does not have the added driers of modern BLO, so boiling and adding driers would improve drying, but I don't believe the extra work is necessary to make pure LO dry.
Pure linseed oil has the advantage of having the fats removed. The 'cleaner' you can get your oil the faster/better it will dry. When oil is pressed or extracted via alkalis there are always residual inclusions of garbage generally referred to as mucilage. This mucilage is made up of fats which slow drying. The more the oil is purified, the more mucilage is removed. Highly refined oils are available from art supplies which is refined to greater degree than hardware store, alkali extracted BLOs.
The same pure LO can be polimerized by allowing it to stand in a glass topped container in the sun for a period of time. Not sure how long though.
Its my understanding that "Tried and True" oil finish is stand oil with added rosin, so you might want to think about using a prepared product.
Linseed oil needs to be applied in thin coats and allowed to dry in the sun ranging for a coupla hours to a day or two between applications, depending on the temp and humidity. Thick coats may never dry.
So, I suggest trying the pure linseed oil, as is, in a thin coat and hang the stock outside, in the sun, to dry for at least a coupa hours. Repeat until you get the finish you desire.
If you don't like the results, boil it in a double boiler, add driers and use that.
I'm sure Stophel can add to this discussion, since he knows much more about linseed oil than I.
J.D.
Some ML builders "reboil" BLO to properly polimerize the oil prior to using it as a finish, often adding other driers in the process.
Pure linseed oil does not have the added driers of modern BLO, so boiling and adding driers would improve drying, but I don't believe the extra work is necessary to make pure LO dry.
Pure linseed oil has the advantage of having the fats removed. The 'cleaner' you can get your oil the faster/better it will dry. When oil is pressed or extracted via alkalis there are always residual inclusions of garbage generally referred to as mucilage. This mucilage is made up of fats which slow drying. The more the oil is purified, the more mucilage is removed. Highly refined oils are available from art supplies which is refined to greater degree than hardware store, alkali extracted BLOs.
The same pure LO can be polimerized by allowing it to stand in a glass topped container in the sun for a period of time. Not sure how long though.
Its my understanding that "Tried and True" oil finish is stand oil with added rosin, so you might want to think about using a prepared product.
Linseed oil needs to be applied in thin coats and allowed to dry in the sun ranging for a coupla hours to a day or two between applications, depending on the temp and humidity. Thick coats may never dry.
So, I suggest trying the pure linseed oil, as is, in a thin coat and hang the stock outside, in the sun, to dry for at least a coupa hours. Repeat until you get the finish you desire.
If you don't like the results, boil it in a double boiler, add driers and use that.
I'm sure Stophel can add to this discussion, since he knows much more about linseed oil than I.
J.D.
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1) how-to make your own linseed oil based varnish...
http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol5no2/articles/mbo52-1.html
2) The easy way - purchase the Tried and True Oil Varnish and add either Japan drier (available at most paint stores) orLead Drier
3) As noted THIN, THIN coats need to be applied and it must be dried in the sun (UV rays are what do it - the old timers may have dried their stock out near the forge - a forge gives off quantities of UV rays plus heat). I'm lucky - where I live at 6500' ASL in SW Colorado we have lots of sunshine and at this altitude it is VERY intense, so I can often put 3-4 coats a day on...
Commercial BLO is made with manganese (and other) driers which dry from the outside first, thus creating a "skin" that helps prevent the inner oil from drying. This along with thick applications and lack of sun are the main culprits in BLO not drying properly, not linseed oil in and of itself.
After 40+ years of finishing wood, IMO when used properly there is NO better looking finish (especially on AF dyed maple) - the combo brings out the chatoyance aka opalescence - that looking down into the wood effect.
hope this helps........
2) The easy way - purchase the Tried and True Oil Varnish and add either Japan drier (available at most paint stores) orLead Drier
3) As noted THIN, THIN coats need to be applied and it must be dried in the sun (UV rays are what do it - the old timers may have dried their stock out near the forge - a forge gives off quantities of UV rays plus heat). I'm lucky - where I live at 6500' ASL in SW Colorado we have lots of sunshine and at this altitude it is VERY intense, so I can often put 3-4 coats a day on...
Commercial BLO is made with manganese (and other) driers which dry from the outside first, thus creating a "skin" that helps prevent the inner oil from drying. This along with thick applications and lack of sun are the main culprits in BLO not drying properly, not linseed oil in and of itself.
After 40+ years of finishing wood, IMO when used properly there is NO better looking finish (especially on AF dyed maple) - the combo brings out the chatoyance aka opalescence - that looking down into the wood effect.
hope this helps........
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Stophel
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Lets see, ultra thin coats, sun to dry...I don't have to add much to what was already said. I will say that your "old" linseed oil can go rancid. If it smells nice, it is fine. If it stinks, well, I don't know if it will still work fine or not... I have a can of raw linseed oil I bought that has a dark, acrid smell. Haven't tried to use it. Start out with good quality linseed oil.
The Tried and True varnish oil is a quick and easy way to go. If you wish to make your own varnish or "black oil", start out with a good quality cold pressed linseed oil. My last batch I used "varnish makers oil" from Wood finishing Enterprises, who have lots of other neat stuff too.
Linseed oil, boiled or not, never dries hard, but will dry to a gummy consistency. And when it is really dry, it is VERY tough. The resins added to make varnish basically add hardness and gloss, and frankly, I'm not so sure that they really add anything to the water resistance...
The Tried and True varnish oil is a quick and easy way to go. If you wish to make your own varnish or "black oil", start out with a good quality cold pressed linseed oil. My last batch I used "varnish makers oil" from Wood finishing Enterprises, who have lots of other neat stuff too.
Linseed oil, boiled or not, never dries hard, but will dry to a gummy consistency. And when it is really dry, it is VERY tough. The resins added to make varnish basically add hardness and gloss, and frankly, I'm not so sure that they really add anything to the water resistance...
OK let's see...
No oils "dry." The so-called "drying oils" polymerize. They do not lose water, so no "drying." But oils can be purified in water, and extracted by steam.
Common boiled linseed oil is steam extracted. "Pure" linseed oil means nothing unless you are trying to sell it.
Hardware store BLO has metallic dryers added, so don't use on bowls and spoons, unless you like eating lead or cobalt.
BLO works best mixed with turpentine or mineral spirits. It soaks in deeper that way, and sets up faster. Oil, BTW, is by nature waterproof.
Most people don't have the patience to put on a oil finish on a gun. If you don't wipe off the excess it will gum. Oil based house paint will gum too if you put it on too heavy. That does not mean it is not a good finish for houses.
A good BLO finish built up over time looks like varnish, but is easier to patch up when scratched. Since it soaks in deeper, it also is better at keeping moisture away from the wood.
A secret formula: BLO, turps, and burnt umber artist's oil color. It helps fill the pores better than straight BLO/turps. The pigment is also a dryer (in this case). Shhhh! Secret! Be sure to use artist's grade color, or it will have all kinds of funky filler in it.
:v
No oils "dry." The so-called "drying oils" polymerize. They do not lose water, so no "drying." But oils can be purified in water, and extracted by steam.
Common boiled linseed oil is steam extracted. "Pure" linseed oil means nothing unless you are trying to sell it.
Hardware store BLO has metallic dryers added, so don't use on bowls and spoons, unless you like eating lead or cobalt.
BLO works best mixed with turpentine or mineral spirits. It soaks in deeper that way, and sets up faster. Oil, BTW, is by nature waterproof.
Most people don't have the patience to put on a oil finish on a gun. If you don't wipe off the excess it will gum. Oil based house paint will gum too if you put it on too heavy. That does not mean it is not a good finish for houses.
A good BLO finish built up over time looks like varnish, but is easier to patch up when scratched. Since it soaks in deeper, it also is better at keeping moisture away from the wood.
A secret formula: BLO, turps, and burnt umber artist's oil color. It helps fill the pores better than straight BLO/turps. The pigment is also a dryer (in this case). Shhhh! Secret! Be sure to use artist's grade color, or it will have all kinds of funky filler in it.
:v
Pichou is absolutely correct when he says that drying oils don't 'dry'in the sense that water based products do (by evaporation).Drying oils actually oxidize (combine with oxygen in the atmosphere)to harden and this process is accelerated at higher temps as it is a chemical reaction ( why its good to sit the object in the sun).A previous poster mentioned sun thickened linseed oil and traditionally this has been considered one of the best ways to enhance the drying properties of linseed.Put the oil into a shallow wide glass dish so its about 2cm deep ,place a piece of glass on top (to keep dust out) and place on a north facing window sill (south facing for those of you in the US living in the wrong hemishere :grin: )for a number of days till its like thick honey.When thinned with turpentine makes an excellent quicker drying oil that can be used as is, or add a tinting agent or to which you can add natural resins(damar or mastic or even pine rosin)to make a harder varnish--cheers zodd
When I do small projects with BLO I saturate the wood till it quits soaking in. Then I wipe off the excess with a rag and rub the manure out of it till I'm tired of rubbin'. Next I set it aside for a day or two to let it harden up.Then I saturate,wipe,rub and wait. Saturate,wipe,rub and wait. Satura....well I think you're startin' to get the idea. I think this is what's called a hand rubbed finish. It does beautiful things to curly maple. You can kinda see into the wood.
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