Purpose of frizzen bridle

[FearNot]

I hope this is the place to put this question...

What's the purpose of a frizzen bridle (other than to hold on a flash guard :grin: ). I did a search of the forums but didn't find anything. I keep hearing the term but haven't found what it is or what it's for anywhere.

Also, I know there is an exploded diagram of a flintlock lock on the internet somewhere because I remember seeing it, but can't find it now. Anyone know where it's located?

Thanks.

 

[crockett]

I'm not well versed in Flintlocks but since no one has given you an answer I'll venture my thoughts. I think the bridle helps hold everything in allignment to insure proper functioning, if the parts cant on their respective pins, etc the smoothness of action could be effected. In any even a bridle is always viewed as an enhancement- to my knowledge.

 

[biliff]

Not having been around when the frizzen bridle idea was generated I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure its a strength issue.
I have two flintlocks, one with and one without. The one without uses a fairly large shoulder screw to hold the frizzen in place and still allow it to pivot. The frizzen is essentially unsupported by anything except this screw and the screw is only supported where it screws into the lock plate. The outboard portion of the assembly has no support at all.
On the one with the bridle, the bridle is very securely screwed into the lockplate by its own screw. The frizzen pivots on the frizzen screw that is supported on both sides (inboard and outboard) of the pivot point by the bridle. Stronger system.

 

[rich pierce]

All makes sense but a surprising number of fine Germanic guns, made after the frizzen bridle was first employes, lack one. Maybe style or customer preference had something to do with it as well.

 

[LSU TIGER]

The addition or absence of a frizzen bridle was a matter quality. Low quality trade locks often lacked a bridle for the frizzen. There are exceptions to any "rule," and this is no different. Many Second and all (as far as I know) Third Pattern Brown Bess muskets had bridles. I've also seen several high quality Jaegers without a frizzen bridle, obviously made by a highly skilled gunsmith..

 

I have shot flint for years all kinds and have never seen a frizzen bridle, probably someones widl idea. bob

 

[Zonie]

lonesomebob: I'm sure you've seen a frizzen bridle before.
It is usually cast into the pan and projects in a forward direction outboard of the frizzen itself.
This "traps" the frizzen between the lockplate and the bridle allowing it to pivot on the screw.
By placing the frizzen into this trapped area, the frizzen screw is supported on both ends making the whole design much more rigid.

Locks with out a frizzen bridle are (as was said above) inherently weaker because the only thing that positions the frizzen is the shoulder screw going thru it into the lockplate.
Without the bridle, that shoulder screw must resist both the frizzen spring pressure and the impact force of the flint hitting the frizzen face.

All Siler locks have a frizzen bridle. The only locks I've seen without one are the inexpensive CVA locks and a few L&R and Davis locks which try to reproduce certain styles of original locks which typically didn't have a bridle.

 

[Geoff Jones]

Zonie...

I may be wrong...I should check before I send this..but I'll take a chance. I don't think the early Ketland by Chambers has a frizzen bridle. In this case, I believe, this is an effort to replicate an early design import lock.
Geoff

 

[WRussell]

I think in general (except maybe for big honking military locks) the bridle is more for protection against rough handling. If somebody smacks sideways on the top of the frizzen, the screw will bend a lot easier if there's no bridle. A lot of high quality pieces were without a frizzen bridle.

 

[flashpanner]

Without the outer support, the frizzen screw would be a cantilever (think diving board), not very rigid. It would be a short period of time before the frizzen would not function correctly. The screw at the threads is the weaker part and would soon break off in the plate, a fun time would not be ensuing.

 

[Birddog6]

Russel: That is correct..... it was a strength improvement. There were LOTS of high quality early locks made without a frizen bridle. But once it got around that some were adding them to the locks, almost all the gunsmiths put them on their rifles. Some early Ketland, some Early Germanic locks didn't have frizen bridles & lots of other ones.
I have shot literally thousands upon thousands of shots from several of them & never even one time had a problem with them or a wear issue with them. If it is a quality built lock, it will never wear out in your lifetime..... :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

You'll probably never wear out a frizzen screw that is unbridled. It is VERY uncommon to see an 18th century German lock with a bridle for the frizzen. It was just the way they did them. Towards the very end of the 18th century, you begin to see more of them, and I have seen very early German locks with them too, so it is not an "improvement" that you can use to call a lock "early" or "late".

 

[Mike Brooks]

Early locks and locks of "export quality" had unbridled frizzens and tumblers. A bridled tumbler is a definate improvement, but I don't see a huge advantage of a bidled frizzen.
I actually prefer an unbridled frizzen on my own personal guns....if I owned any. :redface:

 

[Stophel]

I don't even think modern "two screw" bridles are solid enough!! I usually make a new one, and if possible, put in another screw or a locater pin (MANY old lock bridles have a locater pin behind the front bridle screw. It adds immensely to the stability of the bridle).

 

[Mike Brooks]

It's amazing to me that unbridled tumbler locks worked as well as what they did/do. I've seen a few 250+ year old english trade guns with unbridled tumblers that still work like a champ.
Must be raining in Penn. today with you being on the board this time of day.... :winking:

 

[rich pierce]

Stophel has it right.

We've been told that the frizzen bridle was an improvement, that when it is missing it's because the lock is early or cheap, but that is BS and folks just continue to repeat what they have heard or read. If you look at the new jaeger book, you will find most of the very finest Germanic rifles of the early, mid, to late 1700's, without frizzen bridles.

Now when it comes to English locks, the presence/absence of a frizzen bridle in 1770 might more often reflect cost (export trade quality versus top quality). And by 1780, for sure.

 

[Stophel]

We have internet at work now! I got the pleasure of having to work today (Saturday), and while I wasn't doing anything, I figured I might as well look on the message boards a while.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Just a thoufht for all of you who are concerned to consider. The only real pressure on a unbridled frizzen screw is the pressure, or tension, of the frizzen spring.

The only job that spring does is keep the frizzen closed, regardless of what attitude the lock may be in, ( on its side, upside down, the gun placed muzzle down, etc.)

Since the weight of the frizzen is pretty small- less than a pound even in the large musket locks,- the spring should not be very strong in tension( I recommend 2-3 lbs. at the max.), and therefore should not be putting much pressure on that unsupported frizzen screw. The only " Wear " on the screw comes from pivotting the frizzen on it, as it opens and closes. Assuming the pin is hardened, and lubrication is used on the pin, there is no reason to expect such a pin to wear out any faster than one on a bridled frizzen.

If you leave your frizzen springs stronger than 10 lbs, you may have a problem with an unsupported frizzen screw bending or wearing.

 

[Mike Brooks]

We have internet at work now! I got the pleasure of having to work today (Saturday), and while I wasn't doing anything, I figured I might as well look on the message boards a while.

I was just informed it's Saturday....where the hell have I been? :youcrazy: I need to get out more..... :shake:

 

[AZ-Robert]

Also, I know there is an exploded diagram of a flintlock lock on the internet somewhere because I remember seeing it, but can't find it now. Anyone know where it's located?

Not quite "exploded", but these might have what you need:
[url] http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/flintterm.html[/url]
[url] http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/lockfunction.html[/url].