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pydodex vs 777 vs blackpowder

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Has anyone compared accuracy/consistancy produced by these three powders? I have done some limited testing of pyrodex and trip7. The pyrodex seems to produce slightly better groups than 777, though it does vary some with the projectile. (I am using only conicals and sabots, since I am shooting an A&H mountain rifle with a 1:28 twist.) I have not tried black powder mainly because it is hard to find. However, if there is any real advantage, accuracy-wise, to using BP, I would go to the trouble finding it. :confused:

Any input would be appreciated.
 
Although I have not tried 777, I have used Pyrodex, and Black Powder. I prefer Black Powder. For me, Black Powder has better, and more consistant ignition. I don't have to worry about that occasional delay, or hangfire. Black also seems to have more consistancy in it's velocity, and accuracy, shot after shot. When hunting, I would not trust anything else.
 
My experience with Pyrodex and 777 has been the same. 777 doesn't group as well as Pyrodex, and neither group as well as black powder in any of my guns. BP is more consistent and ignites faster. Faster ignition has the same effect as improving lock time when it comes to accuracy. It's also easier to clean than Pyrodex.
 
When I work in the local gun shop before retireing completly, I always talked to all the muzzle loader shooters. From talking to customers who can shoot and trying different guns myself this is what I found: triple seven will give you higher muzle vel, burns cleaner with no bad smell and it will group extremely well with conicals and sabots in many different rifles. I Have no experence with round balls yet. I do have couple boxes of round balls and plan to try them behind triple seven soon as the weather warms. I think the reason I do not have problems with the Triple seven is I use CCI #11 mag caps and a hotshot nipple. In the last couple years I have also seen numberous targets displaying very small groups with Triple seven out of modern style rifles. In this area Triple seven is the most popular powder being used in muzzle loaders. Based on my experence, I see no need for myself to buy black powder unless I get a flinter.
 
go black>>>> Why do you think everybody is trying to copy it. It's the level all the others are trying to achieve. I haven't found anything better yet until I do it will only be black in my guns.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
I have used Pyrodex and still have a little to use up in one of my rifles, that shoots good with it. I have tried 777 and gave most of the pound to a friend. You can't beat real black powder, and I love that cloud of smoke on a cold crisp morning, and the smell too.
 
i have been shooting 777 for several years now because i could never find blackpowder. i shoot it in my .50's and my .32's and i have never had a hangfire or a misfire ever and they all shoot consistant groups.not to ride the bandwagon but i have never had a problem. mind you,these are all caplocks not flinters.
 
777 makes less smoke. It is stronger than Goex by volume, altho they seem to have calmed it down some since it was introduced. In guns that do well with it, it can be a good powder. It is about as hard to ignite as Pyrodex. On a dry day the fouling is hard and gritty. If a shower happens and it gets humid, that fouling will literally turn into a mushy runny mess. The powder is not too bad about moisture but the fouling is worse than black or Pyrodex about drawing moisture. When it is dry, a hard crusty ring happens in the barrel right infront of where you would normally seat the ball. It requires a damp patch to properly seat the ball at times. If you don't use one, you will be seating on fouling and not on the powder. This is easily verified by ramrod mark. Modern shallow rifling guns suffer this worse and faster than the deeper roundball rifled barrels. It can be very consistant in velocity in the smaller calibers. 3f is hot stuff, so start low. On a trip to the lake squirrel hunting, the gun worked fine to start but became crankier as the day went on. The powder is less corrosive, but if it keeps the barrel wet all the time, the result is the same. Cost, power, ease of use, and everything else makes this a workable choice, but it comes in dead last out of the three choices.
Pyrodex is the most corrosive. It is hard to clean your guns well enough to prevent it from damaging them over time. It has a higher ignition temp. I have been shooting it for years, and some folks laugh at how I load my guns. 20years of Pyrodex will do that to you. Be warned that the various lubes react differently with the various powders. It takes more than just changing powder to make a new load for a rifle with any of them. Pyrodex stinks bad. It draws the least moisture to the fouling of the three in the same situation. If something like bore butter is used, it will often not be a problem at all in damp weather. I remove the screw and put a 2 grain prime under the nipple when hunting to make sure it goes off. It is the least attractive of the choices, but it is the same price as real black pretty much. Since it is lighter than black, you get a few more shots per pound. Pyrodex is capable of very fine accuracy with P being the most accurate powder I have ever used over a bunch of time and guns. That isn't really fair tho, since I used little else for 20 some years. It is a workable choice that requires powder specific methods. It is second place to me.
Real black is easier to ignite. It produces easier to manage fouling in most guns than either of the others. There is more of the fouling but it is softer and less of a pain. It is not that bad about drawing moisture, but the fouling draws moisture like a sponge. It has the most choices in powder levels going from Graf's to Swiss according to the latest info posted here. It is more accepted in the ML'ing community. It is traditional. It works easier doing the same job the others do. It is also a different class of explosive than the first two. It is being regulated and insuranced out of existance in many places. My closest source that I know of is a 2 hour bumper to bumper round trip that costs enough that a pound of black costs me more than 777 would if I just bought a can up the street. If I could get black nearby one pound at a time, I would shoot nothing else in any of my guns.

If you can still drive a few miles and buy a can, be thankfull. If you can, then shooting anything else in a sidelock gun is just beating yourself up for no reason, altho it is doable.

If you take the time to patch the gun out between shots, use a prime like I do when hunting and the gun will be loaded for a long time, and you are shooting a cap gun, all three are workable choices with different pitfalls. The price of 777 is rediculous. Pyrodex is plain nasty to smell, clean, or shoot. I have killed a lot of game using it. Real black is the best and easiest to use, hands down, if you can get it.
 
I have compared these a lot. In flintlocks and percussion. In rifles I built, Bridger .54 Hawkens, .50 and .54 custom Lancasters cap and flint and custom .50 Wigle flintlock, .40 Bedford and Wigle other customs, and I forget how many. Do a search on me. Go to search, advanced, shooting accessories (also flintlock and percussion), Triple 7 and Herb. One good posting is in shooting accessories 07/06/06. These powders can all shoot very well and accurately, just a matter of trying until you find what works.
 
I'll second the notion that black powder is easier to clean than Pyrodex. At least in my Frontier .32
which is a bit of a bear to clean anyway. Not as much differnt cleaning in my KY .50.

No much shooting now anyway. 10 inches of snow and temp not above 20 here in SW Ohio.

Cheers

TK
 
Tried Tripple 7 one cold damp morning (powder was dry) in 2 different rifles and expierenced such a dramatic delay between busting the cap and actual firing the guys firing flint on either side of me wanted to know what I was doing. When I got home that afternoon, I unloaded the Bronco but forgot the bottle of Trip 7....sadly some knucklehead broke into my truck that night and stole it along with a bag of trash. The quality of criminal has sure gone down hill! :shake:
 
I thank all of you who responded for the wealth of information. Although I have played around with BP, muzzleloaders and cartridge, for many a year, I have just recently gotten serious about it. I have not yet hunted with a muzzleloader, but would like to next season, if I can work up a load that gives me some confidence that I can hit a deer within 100 yds.

From the input you guys have given me, I think it would be worth adding BP to the 777 and pyrodex that I have been experimenting with. Only problem is having to order a minimum of 5 lbs, though the price of Graf's per pound is not bad, even with the hazmat charge.

Does anyone, by chance, happen to know of a local source for black powder in the Houston area? I have not found one.

At least I will have plenty of reasons to get to the range often between now and November :)
 
noworries said:
Tried Tripple 7 one cold damp morning (powder was dry) in 2 different rifles and expierenced such a dramatic delay between busting the cap and actual firing the guys firing flint on either side of me wanted to know what I was doing. When I got home that afternoon, I unloaded the Bronco but forgot the bottle of Trip 7....sadly some knucklehead broke into my truck that night and stole it along with a bag of trash. The quality of criminal has sure gone down hill! :shake:
It must be where you live, nobody'll steal either my 777 or Pyrodox, I think I'll haveta use it on the garden. :shake:
 
SJoe said:
Has anyone compared accuracy/consistancy produced by these three powders?

Nope. I'm into BLACK POWDER shooting. Not intersted in any imitation gunpowder, so I've never tried them. What's the point? :confused:

That's kind of like buying a great old antique car and putting a bunch of modern accessories in it. Kind of ruins the whole idea. IMO
 
Go to the Goex site on your computer, and get the phone number for the distributor in Texas. He can tell you the closest retail outlet. Blakc powder stores forever, which you cannot say for the subs. And, with more and more shooters finding out that they were lied to by the clerks in the discount stores about the new wonderguns, you will have no trouble finding someone who is interested in finding some black powder, and will buy a can or two off you if you want to part with it. Considering that the price of black powder is about half what you are paying for the subs, you can err on the side of " buying too much ".
 
Not being argumentative. I know lots of guys that share mail order lots of powder. It is against the federal law to do so unless you are liscenced to do so, record their drivers liscence info, have them sign for it, and attempt to find out what they are buying it for. In Illinois, it is breaking the law to loan someone enough to load their gun without checking their gun owners card first. A non-resident can not legally carry or possess black in that state unless they have that card. Before you tell people to order a lot and split it, you need to consider the laws involved.
If a retail dealer sells 50 pounds a year, he doesn't make enough profit to pay for the added insurance cost to keep it on site so he can sell it in many places. Many townships have specific added limitations and storage requirements. Now, I don't know of anyone that has been arrested for breaking these laws myself. I do try to follow the law. I can not legally attend a shoot in Illinois unless I apply for a gun owners card there, so I don't go over there. I try to be legal in everything I do. Not saying for anyone not to do what they want on this issue, but be aware that you are breaking the law every time you do.
 
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