Pyrodex RS vs. P

[grndhntr]

I have been unable to find a good, reasonably priced source for black powder (and I don't want to buy 25# on line) so I have been using Pyrodex which is very easy to find where I live. I have noticed that with my rifle (a shortened to 18" barrel .50 percussion Renegade) that when I shoot RS (ff equivalent), it's very common to have hang-fires but when I shoot Pyrodex P (the fff equivalent), it fires much faster and has more consistent ignition timing, causing me to shoot more accurately. Is this common?

 

[David W.]

Yes. I haven't used Pyrodex in a ****'s age, but I got much better performance out of the "P". You don't have to buy an entire 25#, you can buy 10#, or even 5#.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I used to use Pyrodex Select RS for years. I was also having a little trouble with hang fires. I went to the Pyrodex P and just don't have that trouble any more. Ron

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I shoot a T/C Renegade in 54cal and have shot Pyrodex RS and Triple7 out of them and i believe i can help you out a little! First off, after you pour powder down barrel give the gun a good drop onto your boot, maybe a 6-10" drop! This will compact the powder down where itll be a touch easier to ignite! Another thing id do is after the barrel drop, turn the gun at an angle toward the hammer and give the other side a good whack with the bottom of your fist! This will get the powder drifted over to the ignition channel and can help also! Other than that, Pyrodex RS is known as being harder to ignite than BP! I cant really find BP where i live either, so ive since switched over to musket caps and Triple7 in my rifles! Maybe you should go that route and see what happens! Of you can find Pyro you should be able to find Triple7 on the shelf right next to it :thumbsup:

 

[Pacobillie]

I shoot a T/C Renegade in 54cal and have shot Pyrodex RS and Triple7 out of them and i believe i can help you out a little! First off, after you pour powder down barrel give the gun a good drop onto your boot, maybe a 6-10" drop! This will compact the powder down where itll be a touch easier to ignite! Another thing id do is after the barrel drop, turn the gun at an angle toward the hammer and give the other side a good whack with the bottom of your fist! This will get the powder drifted over to the ignition channel and can help also! Other than that, Pyrodex RS is known as being harder to ignite than BP! I cant really find BP where i live either, so ive since switched over to musket caps and Triple7 in my rifles! Maybe you should go that route and see what happens! Of you can find Pyro you should be able to find Triple7 on the shelf right next to it :thumbsup:

Why have him switch over to T7, which is even harder to ignite than Pyrodex, after he just said that he is happy with the Pyrodex P.

BTW, it has also been my experience that the P grade, has more reliable ignition that RS. Also, in my rifles, T7 does not group well with PRBs and Pyrodex P turns them into tack drivers. Actually, my two Hawken barrels with 1:48 twist group better with Pyrodex P than they do with anything else, inclusive of real BP.

Asd to the ignition, I guess it is a combination of more surface, relative to weight, and the smaller grains having an easier time flowing into the bolster.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

In my experience T7 is very easy to ignite and doesnt have that cloud hanging over it like Pyrodex RS does for its been known to be harder to ignite! The fact that it doesnt shoot prb's is also about as relative of a comment as ive ever heard :stir: I get 6" groups at 100yds with my Renegade shooting 90gr ffg T7, 1/4" over powder felt wad, .015 TOTW Mink Tallow lubed cotton patch and .530 balls :thumbsup: Thats the same size groups and off the same set of sandbags that a long barreled slower twist dedicated prb gun shooter gets shooting real BP that i hunt with! I shoot musket caps as they arent really all that much of an investment to me since i shoot maybe 100 shots a year or less and i like the hotter ignition source i feel they provide me a lil piece of mind! Your opinion may be a little skewed on T7 as it doesnt work worth a darn in flintlocks, but ignites fine in percussion guns!

 

[Pacobillie]

I just said that T7 does not yield good groups in my two TC Hawkens, which are caplock rifles BTW. Others may have a different experience. And if T7 works for you, it is great!

That said, it has been my experience that T7 FFG is a bit harder to ignite than Pyrodex RS, and Pyrodex P is easier to ignite than either of the above. I have had several misfires with T7, a few with RS and none whatsoever with P.

That said, Pyrodex is dirtier than T7.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Ive never experienced any hang fires to speak of so maybe im just lucky or maybe the fact that i only use hotter musket caps is the reason! I take alot of grief on here for using musket caps, but like i stated before i dont shoot 1200 times a year so the $8/100 musket caps doesnt break the bank! Triple7 is very clean and easy to clean up, i cheat anymore when i clean my guns! After a day at the range i vise the gun up, spray degreaser in the barrel, put cleaning rod with bronze brush in a drill and run it in the barrel for a couple minutes, then use a dry bore mop to get all the fouling out! A Barricade soaked patch goes in last to protect barrel! Takes probably 4-5min total! I have no experience with Pyro P, always thought it to be for handguns and smaller caliber rifles...maybe im wrong :idunno:

 

[grndhntr]

Thanks guys. Sounds like others have had the same hang-fire problems with RS. Mnbearbaiter, I have done the bang on the rifle to set the powder and knock the side to get some under the cap thing and it doesn't seem to make a difference for me. Yesterday, I shot my first 4 shots with RS (banged and tapped every time) and every one of them was a hang-fire. Then I switched to P and shot 17 shots without a hang fire. That was kinda the kicker for me. I'll just start calling my carbine a pistol so that I can shoot pistol powder in it and all should be good. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

order the stainless steel hollow base spitfire nipple from cabelas :thumbsup:

 

[Bill Hall]

Sounds like you got it solved, for now. Just a thought though, if you ever get to the point where you want to try other powders, or different grades, you might consider looking into black powder. Like someone mentioned already, you can order as little as five pounds, and it is quite a bit cheaper than the substitute you're using now. Just a higher initial cost. Plus, you seldom hear of the ignition problems experienced by you and so many others, when using black powder.

Sometimes you can fine tune the accuracy of a rifle by switching to a coarser or finer grade. If you are only using the pyro P grade, then you may never know if another grade will make a difference. Obviously, you won't be using the RS grade of pyro in that rifle, so trying black powder will give you a couple more options.

Something to consider in the future, and I know you will never look back once you've tried it. Until then, have fun. :thumbsup: Bill

 

[Herb]

I don't know what a Renegade looks like, but I think it has a patent breech. This is where the breech part has a threaded portion that screws into the barrel. So the bore of the barrel is .50" and the threaded breech has a hole through it that reaches down under the nipple channel. The breech "chamber" probably is about .25" in diameter, about like a wooden pencil, and an inch long. You drop that fluffy Pyrodex RS into your bore and it bridges at the smaller chamber, does not get down under the nipple, and the cap flame does not reach it. Swiss 1 1/2 black powder will do the same thing. But Pyrodex P is much finer grains and it does not bridge, nor does Goex 2F or 3F powder. You can check for this powder chamber by running a wooden dowel into your bore, say a 3/8" dowel, sharpened like a wooden pencil. Turn it into that chamber and it will go in as far as it can. Look at that concentric mark, and that is your chamber size. You also have to keep this chamber clean. The suggestion to use a "Hot Shot" nipple is a good one. With it, CCI 11 caps work perfectly, magnums are not needed. I read on Hodgdon's site where they recommended using Pyrodex P as a booster charge for Pyrodex RS!
Here is a .58 fullstock flint Hawken I built with parts I got from another builder, including a Hawken Flint Hooked Breech and Tang, which I really didn't want and will never use again. This inch-long .360 chamber caused me a great deal of trouble with Swiss 2F and Swiss 1 1/2F. I finally bored it out to about .400 and then figured a way to clean it. I did it by drilling and tapping the .570 cleaning jag to take a .40 caliber cleaning jag and then fitting a cleaning patch over both of them.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

You got me there :hmm: I shoot a 54cal though! I may have to give "P" a try in the future from the sounds of it :thumbsup: