Quality of the Sikligar products

[NJLight]

Does anybody know anything about the Sikligar (indian) produced muskets. I know some of the indian made stuff is great quality and some is not. I don't know anything about this group.

Thanks

 

[rabjr]

I know some of the indian made stuff is great quality

Could you please tell us what is? I'd very much like to know.

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Sikligar

I had never heard of them but their site came up easy enough when I googled it. Be sure to click on "Factory". I also found it real interesting when I was checking out "replica guns/pistols & accessories" the "Flintlock (Siler Lock)".

 

[fitter]

JUNK

 

[NJLight]

Well...All I can attest to is that both MVTC and Loyalist get their weapons from India and from what I have seen of those they are pretty decent muskets. For someone that can't afford Pederosoli price they have worked well. We have a few guys in our unit with MVTC muskets and they perform great. I am just not familiar with Sikligar and was curious how they stacked up against MVTC and Loyalist.

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

As the owner of two MVTC muskets and a Pedersoli rifle, I've had to tinker with all three. I'm one who will never be able to afford a custom gun. There are folks on this forums who will tell you that anything made in India is junk. Yes, if you want to make them more accurate representations of period muskets, you will have to tinker with them. Despite all the pro and con reports, debate and opinions expressed here, I trust my MVTC muskets. I simply don't know anything about Sikligar products but I don't think that either MVTC or Loyalist gets guns from them. The "factory" in the photo on Sikligar's website looks just a little too primitive for me. For $60 though, I might be tempted to buy a lock from them just to see what quality it was.

 

[Mike Brooks]

As the owner of two MVTC muskets and a Pedersoli rifle, I've had to tinker with all three. I'm one who will never be able to afford a custom gun.

For the price of those three guns you could have had something fairly nice.

 

[Rock Island]

I have three MVTco Muskets and have had no problems with any of them, I have no idea who makes them for MVT, could be the outfit you are looking at or not, Pete don't say either way on his site. They are not original guns, and only closely resemble them, they are not exact copy's. They do work, the frizzens are hardened, and the company stands behind what they sell. I don't plan on collecting the things past the three, but the ones I have suffice for my plinking needs. I plan to spend the real money when I get serious and want a flint rifle, when I do it will be Italian or US made.

 

[threepdr]

A friend just got a US Model 1795 musket from the Military Heritage in Canada. It is one of the three big vendors who sell Indian guns. His is marked Sikligar on the bottom of the barrel. Over all I was impress with the gun and the price ($499). Fit and finish was as good as any of the Asian guns and it had all the correct period proofs and markigs on the lock and barrel.

I don't think this gun or any of the other Indian guns are as good quality as Italian guns, but for less than half the price they are more than adequate for most users.

It sparked and fired the first time tried. He bought it for 1812 reenating, but we will be trying live rounds soon.

 

[sundog]

The factory ? OMG Oh man I wouldn't want to be within 30 feet of one of those guns when fired much less having it go boom near my face.

 

[jerry0475]

I have four products of them. Again, you pay for what you get. Barrels are not proofed so I will never fire a musketball from those pistols and muskets. Just blackpowder. I have a charleville frome Sikligar and one from Pedersoli. The locks from Sikligar look good but wear out very fast. Frizzen is not hardened well compared with the Pedersoli (geometry). The lock is the hart of your musket/pistol. What you can do is buy a Sikligar and then replace the lock. A quality lock from TotW perhaps. I have done it with a pistol. In time the lock also wear out but you can buy parts. Those are not cheap but geometry and of course frizzen are perfect! Sikligar doesn't sell parts of a lock.

 

[Rock Island]

I have to say I think the "factory " pic is a load of manure. The numbers of these muskets, and the variety of them available is to large for anything but a modern factory of some sort to produce. They provide guns to the movie industry on at least three continents, not to mention three gun sellers in this country ( and probably others I don't know about yet) as well as gun sellers in Europe, and the UK. That's a lot of guns for a bunch of guys working on the floor of a cave to produce. I am sure there is hand fitting involved, but the bulk of the gun is machine made just like any other gunmaker. I think they hand out the "hand made " BS because they think that makes them more appealing to some buyers who want "authentic"style gear. The guns also look too similar for each one to be turned out individually by a single craftsman working in some archaic shop, not considering the thousands being produced. The British were producing firearms in India for as long as they were there, after they pulled out in '49 the Indians continued to do so on their own. This is a country with a firearms industry that can produce the FAL, I don't think muskets are beyond their capabilities or that they would have to resort to caves and hand tools to make them.

 

[Jason Lewis]

i think anyone purchasing one of these would be wasting their money. their guns look chunky and crude at least in the crappy picture they provide on the website. i also love how the factory picture is of a couple of guys working in a mud hut by candle light. yes the british were producing firearms in india during the colonial period but have you guys ever seen an original indian made P53? there is a distinct differance between them and a tower enfield. i know some of you guys have some of the muskets produced by this company and have gotten lucky so far. but all of you have said you that you would rather have an italian or american made gun, so basically what you guys are saying is that you will pay 500$ for junk or iffy quality and satisfaction instead of maybe save another 400$ or so and get exactly what you want and be truely happy. it doesn't make any sense to me. if you can save 500$ you can wait and save another 400 easily. junk muzzleloaders are the plague of the BP world, guys buy them and then lose intrest after missfires and inaccuracy. don't waste your time with these unless you are a reenactor and want a gun just to drop and beat up.

 

[alex efremenko]

don't waste your time with these unless you are a reenactor and want a gun just to drop and beat up.

:applause: I agree with what you said,but even reenactors have standards,even with blanks ,I am wary of a guy next to me with an 'India' gun,they are easy to spot,most look clubby and cartoonish :barf:you get what you pay for, IMO, but what do I know.

Alex E.

 

[Rock Island]

Well, I would consider an Indian made rifle, but they do not seem to sell such, I think it's against their law, or maybe import rules. I don't find my Indian made muskets any more clunky than my Italian ones, or any other military firearm I own. Infantry rifles or muskets tend to be robust, much more so than commercial sporters anyway. True enough the pics suck on the wed sites, in person they do look better. I have all the infantry rifles I can ever use from every era of modern firearms, when I buy a flint muzzelloading rifle I would like a nice sporter, not another fence post, and as all my comercial sporters are US made I will continue that tradition. The Indian guns are toys I am playing with today and will pass along eventualy for a profit when I am done with them. If I find myself enjoying smoothbores a lot then I will invest in something a bit more upscale

 

[Jason Lewis]

Well, I would consider an Indian made rifle, but they do not seem to sell such, I think it's against their law, or maybe import rules. I don't find my Indian made muskets any more clunky than my Italian ones, or any other military firearm I own. Infantry rifles or muskets tend to be robust, much more so than commercial sporters anyway. True enough the pics suck on the wed sites, in person they do look better. I have all the infantry rifles I can ever use from every era of modern firearms, when I buy a flint muzzelloading rifle I would like a nice sporter, not another fence post, and as all my comercial sporters are US made I will continue that tradition. The Indian guns are toys I am playing with today and will pass along eventualy for a profit when I am done with them. If I find myself enjoying smoothbores a lot then I will invest in something a bit more upscale

good luck selling them for a profit, i'm guessing you'll loose money on them. i haven't seen one yet that's used for sale. i'm sure it happens i just haven't seen one.

 

[Rock Island]

You don't see them up for sale much because it's mostly the living history guys who have them, and they don't give up gear unless they find something more original or they die. I got my MVTco Bess from someone who wanted to portray a later period and got the later model Bess, but couldn't afford it without selling the Long Land first. I take care of my gear, my guns will still look, and shoot great in a few years as they do now, they fun to play with, but I never forget they are also investments. One thing I have never done is lose money on a gun, not any kind of gun, if it shoots you sit on it five years, take care of it and you will turn a profit if you bought it right. All the Uberti, Pietta, and Pedersoli repops I bought back in the 90's are now worth more used than I paid for them new. I watched a retired reenactor sell off his worn out old junk at a flea market last year and people were paying him good money for Shot loose brass frame revolvers, beat to death rifles, and muskets. The way things are today if it might go bang at all someone will pay money for it.

 

[tg]

I think the line is pretty well drawn in the sand with respect to these guns and neither side will likley budge, when I first saw the pics of them my mind was made up about them, the fact that they are a step below the Italian guns is not a confidence builder, I hope those who have them will continue to be satisfied and safe with their choices and hope those considering them can find something domestic made used or some other alternative that will offer a better product and suit their needs historicaly if such a need exists.

 

[Jason Lewis]

while i am in agreement with TG on his comment and i'm glad that you are happy with your firearms rock island, not all firearms will gain in value. a great many of them are worth about 100bucks on a good day, modern or otherwise. on the other hand, there is also a sucker born every minute.

 

[Rock Island]

From watching the auction sites I am very familiar with that sucker born in the last minute. Time and again I am amazed, and after all I have seen I shouldn't be at this point. I live in a gun unfriendly state, possibly because of this anything that shoots will sell for more than it would in other parts of the country except New Jersey and California. I remember hearing negative comments about the guns made in Spain back in the late 1970's and early 80's, my first CVA Hawken was the butt of jokes when I first got it. Cheap, unsafe junk being the most common epitaph if I remember right. Yet now 30 years later they seem to be trading well, and the two that I still have are still shooting now as well as they did when I bought them long ago. I also have a CVA revolver but that was made in Italy. It's possible that in another 30 years the Indian guns will be collected ( probably by fools who think they are originals as they will have aged by then, sometimes deliberately aged by the reenactors) and nobody will care were they were made, or by who, or how. From what I recall the Japanese guns were equally looked down on, but seem to be valued today with the exception of the "Tower" pistols and their manure locks. Negativity for a variety of reasons against this, or that firearm is nothing new, sometimes deserved, and mostly not. As a martial arms collector I have heard it all against Japanese Arisakas, or Italian Carcono's, Russian Mosin's, just to name a few, you learn to form your own opinions based on actual experience with the firearm in question. I vividly recall my WWII veteran neighbors reaction to some of the stuff the Italians, and Japanese were pouring into the country during the bicentennial years, Junk, not if you put a gun to my head would I buy that manure ( he said a few other things too, but this is a family place), get yourself a real gun kid, and he would show me an ancient, but very well preserved musket of some sort, colonial made, and in very good condition. Yet today when these same Italian, and Japanese muskets turn up for sale they do not lack for buyers from a new generation of shooters who will pay real money for them.
I don't think I would trust the Indian gunmakers skills at producing a fine Kentucky rifle just now, but I don't think they could screw up a big, clunky, military musket, these were not precision weapons in the first place, more like shoulder fired cannons. Point is the three I have all do what a military musket is supposed to do, lob a chunk of lead the size of a gob stopper in the direction of the enemy/target when I pull the trigger, and hit a torso sized target at 75-100 yards.