Question about Revolutionary US rifle

[dave_person]

Hi Marsh,
In my opinion the very best and appropriate commercial repro would be the Japanese Charleville (model 1766/68) sold by Dixie Gun Works and Navy Arms. They are not made anymore but used ones can be found. I think Ackermann Arms often has a few for sale.

dave

 

[rich pierce]

People often use the word “rifle” when they mean “gun”. Perhaps that happened here.

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

IMHO, the best option is to build a gun from a Riffle Shoppe kit. That is what I did after looking at the available options for a 1728 French fusil. However, it takes a while and is still not much more than 90% accurate. For instance, the barrel the kit uses is a Colerain that is slightly swamped, probably for safety reasons. This means that if the bayonet is sized to fit over the end of the barrel, it will wobble some when it is installed. I explained this to Colerain and they said they could make me a custom barrel that was not swamped, but since the gun was already completed, and the bayonet would get very limited use, I let well enough alone. I will say that the bayonet fitted to their .69 cal. 1728 St. Etienne barrel will not fit over their standard .62/.66 fusil de chasse barrel, so the larger caliber barrel is smaller in outside dimension at the muzzle than the smaller caliber ones. Who would have thunk it!

 

[TFoley]

I think you need to do more research on your "great great grand dad that was in the revolution", as weapons changed over time during the war. The American Revolution can be broken down into Early - Pre-1777 - Mid- 1777 til 1778 Late - 1779 til1781

• Early war or what is sometimes called the New England & New York Campaigns
  • Common civilian smoothbores & fowlers, Committee of Safety muskets, Brown Bess, and older French musket from the F&I war such as the model 1728
  • Rifles are a Pennsylvania / Maryland / Virginia / Carolinas thing
• Mid War - The Battles in New Jersey, Capture of Philadelphia, Valley Forge and Monmouth
  • After the battle of Saratoga in 1777, large number of French 1763 or 1766 Charleville muskets start making their way to the Continental Army
  • Captured German Muskets from the battles of Trenton and Princeton
  • Committee of Safety muskets, and Brown Bess
• Late War, the Southern Campaigns ending with Yorktown
  • I would say the French 1763 or 1766 Charleville or a Brown Bess muskets

Brown Bess patterns would have been most likely Long Land from the Royal Colonial Armories,
Committee of Safety muskets, would have been locally made with little conformity between makers, based off of a list of specifications closely looking like a Brown Bess. Things like caliber, barrel length, bayonet lug & bayonet, locks would be very similar to an English round faced,

Older French musket from the F&I war such as the model 1728, were captured and given to the Colonial governments as reserve weapons for their armories, Some were kept by F&I Colonial troops and passed down or rebuilt by local gunsmiths,

Rifles are a more specific tool and more regionalized firearm of the period.

Fowlers or smoothbores, were also very regionalized. The are French, Dutch, and British styles. Western New York, Maine and Western PA may see more French styles. Eastern PA and New Jersey more English influence. The Hudson Valley and areas surround New York City Dutch.

So again, there is no one size fits all as there was nothing like a single War Department equipping units. Each State or Colony was responsible for equipping their units if possible. That is what makes the French Alliance so important, the French provide a logistical base to manufacture uniforms and arms that result in standardization in the Continental Army.

What I will say is if you are looking for a modern reproduction, stay away from the Indian or Pakistani pieces whish are not proofed. A Perdersoli Brown Bess or Charleville are acceptable representatives of period muskets. There are many fowlers and smoothbores out there, as well as rifles; but research is important as there is a lot of difference between an 19th century flintlock and a 18th century one.

Between you and Mr Persons, you've cleared up a lot of unanswered questions for me, as well as, no doubt, a good few others.

 

[sturmkatze]

Hi Marsh,
In my opinion the very best and appropriate commercial repro would be the Japanese Charleville (model 1766/68) sold by Dixie Gun Works and Navy Arms. They are not made anymore but used ones can be found. I think Ackermann Arms often has a few for sale.

dave

Thank you sir. As always, good info

 

[Shakydog]

Im pretty sure he was in it for a long time and at the end of it , I talked with my brother and he said he will look and see what he can find on him , my family had a direct family member in just about all the US wars from the Revolution to Afghanistan even had a uncle in the battle of little big horn we were originally from New England and the Pennsylvania area and moved to Monroe Mi in 1840, including 5 uncles in WW2 , my grand father was in WW1 and a his grandfather was in the Civil War, my dad was Korea and Viet Nam along with his brother and 3 cousins I was in desert storm , crazy thing is no one got KIA but lots of Purple Harts
Ill let you know what he comes up with, I would like to get something he might have had . I think my brother has his letters and some government papers? there should be enough info to find out where and what he did, Its that I haven't looked at that stuff for 40 yrs and can't remember

 

[tenngun]

I would say there was no standard US Army contract rifle until 1803 at Harper's Ferry.
Everything before that was piece meal.

Was about to bring that up.
Army did contract with makers for a rifle, but it was not standardized. Some went to the army, most were trade rifles going to Indian tribes. Until 1821 the Us government handled Indian trade, and privet traders had to attempt to compete with a ‘non profit’
The idea of rifles was it would improve Indians hunting and they would be less upset about settling in their country
The rifles had a federal style or late Lancaster style stock, barrels of around 42” and about .50, sometimes the brass would look similar to the 1803

 

[oldsarge79]

Some Connecticut troops were armed with Committee of Safety muskets (manufactured locally or by the states). Here is a link for a Connecticut-made musket for sale. Like JB67 said, they ain't cheap.
https://www.ambroseantiques.com/flongarms/thik.htm
If, by chance, your ancestor was in the 7th Connecticut Regiment, let me know. My ancestor was a captain in that unit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you find an American rifle with documented Rev War provenance, expect to pay a lot for it.

"a lot" is an understatement. The OP did ask about rifles. Rifles were used by riflemen, that is why they are called "riflemen". Great response and lesson, Dave.