Question: black bears Idaho

[jbtusa]

My question is about shooting a spring black bear here in SW Idaho. Assuming a decent chest hit at 100 yards or less, does a .54 round ball have enough oomph to stop a black bear from running away and getting lost? I am worried about the bear getting away and getting lost. I will be using a Lyman GPR .54 with 85 grs. of FF Goex and a .530 round ball.

 

[Idaho Ron]

My question is about shooting a spring black bear here in SW Idaho. Assuming a decent chest hit at 100 yards or less, does a .54 round ball have enough oomph to stop a black bear from running away and getting lost? I am worried about the bear getting away and getting lost. I will be using a Lyman GPR .54 with 85 grs. of FF Goex and a .530 round ball.

The average bear for Idaho is only 150 pounds. I would think it would have enough power less than 75 yards to do it. BUT!! If the animal DEOS run here are the problems. Their hair tends to soak up blood so a blood trail is questionable. The bear has a shoulder that covers up more lung and heart than a deer has. If the PRB hits that shoulder I would not gamble that it would make it through. I have never shot a bear at 100 yards in the shoulder with a PRB so I can’t answer if it would make it to the vitals.
Then you have the issue of a wounded bear loose in the woods. I know a wounded bear is possible with ANY gun a guy uses but a PRB has less power than a conical, and yes that statement will cause a fight. You are already having doubts about the effectiveness of the load already. When going into the woods to hunt a bear a guy needs a load that he has faith in. I would not have faith in that load but that is just me. I look at it like this. If I shot that load at a bear and the bear ran off. Would I send my son after the bear? Heck no, not in a million years. Because I don’t have faith in that load. Ron

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have to agree with Ron on this. If you want to hunt bear, use a conical bullet for the hunt. It weighs more, so its more likely to penetrate fur, muscle, and bone, than any round ball. And bears do have large, heavy bones. Murphy's law says that no matter how good a shot you are, how close the bear, and what kind of sights you have on your gun, if hitting a bone will cause a wounded animal rather than a dead one, It will HAPPEN to YOU!

Three of us learned this sad lesson taking chest shots on wild boar in a hunt back in 1981. All the boars weighted more than 150 lbs. One guy shot his boar with a Brown Bess in .75 caliber, and he still had to use a second shot with a RB, to put the boar down! The same problem occurred when RBs were used in .50 and .54 caliber rifles.

None of us were particularly surprise about the performance of the RBs in the .50 and .54 rifles. We were ALL shocked at the performance of the Brown Bess RB.

Take BrownBear's Advice, and use a good conical in your .54 for hunting any bear.

On a separate note, I would like to believe that following the huge tracks of a bear would not be much of a problem for any hunter. The claws are out all the time, so they disturb a lot of turf when they walk over it. The rear prints are about as long as the average man's footprint, so you can practice tracking bears, by going into the woods, laying some tracks, and circling around to read your own tracks. Just remember to put the ground you are looking at for tracks between you and your source of light. The lower the angle of light to the ground( early morning and late afternoon) the easier it is to see shadows, and " shine". Shine is light bouncing off flattened areas on the ground where a large object( the bear's foot, or your's!) has stepped. As the sun rises, you can still see shine, but you have to bend over to lower the angle at which your eye is looking at the ground to see the shine. From 10:30 A.M. to 2 P.M., take a break, unless your animal is leaving lots of disturbed earth in its tracks. NO sense losing a trail by trying to track in conditions that you are not trained for, when you can take a break, eat, rest, and then take up the trail again later in the day. Waiting also allows the animal to lay down where it will bleed out and die, shortening the trail you have to follow.

 

[biliff]

So far I've killed two black bear with roundball on the other side of the river in Oregon. I assume the bears are similiar to the ones in Idaho.

One was a small (125lb) sow that was shot with a .54 flintlock at about 50 yards. Head on shot. Ball went in just above the white chest patch and popped out just in front of the hip. Bear just rolled over and kicked a couple of times. No tracking involved. Lots of blood in the chest cavity, nothing outside.

Second bear was about 180 lb boar, shot with a .58 PRB thru the shoulder at 100+ yards. Charge was 110gr FFg.(Measured it later at 102yds with a range finder). Rolled a few yards down a slope and into a creek bottom. Heard the death moan about the time I was repriming. Still went back to camp and came back with a buddy and shotguns/buckshot before going into the thick stuff after it. It was dead at the edge of the creek. No tracking. Again, lots of blood internally but nothing on the outside. Butchering showed the ball hit the shoulder blade right where it transitions from flat to round. Shoulder broke up, bone fragments went everywhere. Didn't find any of the ball, but it never made it to the far chest wall.

Based on this limitted experience, PRB's will kill 'em, though the second bear was pushing it based on the autopsy. Admittedly I've been lucky in terms of them dropping on the spot. But then again, centerfires won't drop 'em on the spot either, unless you break the shoulder/spine. I also brought serious back up when going into the creek bottom to find the bear. Momma didn't raise no dummies.

 

[texcl]

I'm using a .58 pbr this year but I'll have my .300 shortmag hanging right next to me if I need a quick second shot. I've seen many bears killed wih bows around here but the kills aren't usually clean unless they clear that shoulder blade. Just pick your shot well.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Side note on tracking a bear. If you are alone remember you will be watching the ground for sign. If you did have a wounded bear you won't be watching for a potential charge from the brush ahead or to the side. I am sure it doesn't happen often. But If I were tracking a bear shot with a PRB I would do like was said before. I would follow up with a gun with horse power, and I would also have someone watching and also carrying enough gun. I tracked a wounded bear only once. The bear was dead but I have never been so alert in my life to sounds. Ron

 

[texcl]

As a side note you can cast your balls with a harder alloy and you will get far better penatration, I shot deer this year with hardened .62cal rb's and there was no stopping those rb's, even after smashing through some serious bones, the first one I shot went through the left shoulder bone a rib hit the far side rib then struck the femur on the way out, and I could hear the ball wizzing away smashing through the brush after it exited the deer, I think if the ball was pure lead it wouldn't of exited, I was only using 80grs of powder so it wasn't a heavy load, I could imagine if I used 120grns, it would penatrate a bears shoulder no problem, but the only way to tell is to try it, I have alot of faith in rb's of course shot placement is everything. I grew up on a ranch in south texas and we got our first rifle a .22 at a young age and I've seen nilgai, hogs, javalina and every other sort of big game taken by a determined kid and a .22 lr, now I wouldn't condone it's use but it just goes to show you how important shot placement is, back then we practically lived with our rifles and all my buddies and I were crack shots because of it, we learned to not get excited and we passed on the shot until we got the perfect opportunity.I also learned not to bring game into the house or my grandma would tan my hide, after she got through yelling at me she would show me the correct way to process it and then she'd cook it up for us, she could make anything taste good. Those were the good old days for sure.

 

[Protrucker]

I've only killed one black bear with a patched round ball, but the shot was broad side & passed all the way thru. The bear ran about 15-20 yards to the top of a steep slope & rolled another 15-20 down the hill to where it expired. I used a .530 ball with only 80gr. of FFg Goex & I am totally confident in that load. It has plenty of power to do the job. :thumbsup:

 

[jbtusa]

Since the consensus is that a .54 round ball is marginal for bear, has anyone shot a conical through the Lyman GPR with any degree of accuracy? I cannot afford to buy another barrel such as the 1:28" twist Lyman Hunter barrel since I just paid for this new rifle and cash is short. So maybe I can buy a few conicals to shoot through the GPR rifle (1:60" twist) just for bear and then revert back to round balls for everything else.

Does any conical shoot accurately through the Lyman GPR barrel?

 

[paulvallandigham]

With that slow ROT( 1:60), you are pretty well restricted to using the Lee R.E.A.L. slug, or the Buffalo Bullet's ball-et. - Both are short wadcutters. They are heavier than a RB, but they are not much longer. They are designed to stabilize in those slow twists.

 

[longcruise]

Bears and hogs have an anatomical similarity in that the shot must be placed forward of what you would expect with a deer or elk.

The .54 and prb should be adequate for bear.

 

[Flint311]

A .54 is plenty for bear. I've shot 3 with a .50 flintlock, 80 gr. PRB. The only one that went very far was a bad shot. I was in a tree stand, so the angle can work for and against you. The 2nd one was 500 lbs. and only went 30-35 yds. and the ball (flattened) was under the skin on the far side. It his the hide and slid between it and the ribs at a downward angle, so it had some energy left. The bow hunters in camp thought I was nuts for using a muzzle loader, cause I "only had one shot"!! You'll be fine with a .54.

 

[jbtusa]

Bill: Based on what you said about Oregon bear, then I will stick with the round ball here in Idaho. Instead of buying another conical barrel or shooting a limited number of conicals through the GPR for one hunt, I will stick with my "favorite" load, and thus have the most accurate hit.

I think sticking with my favorite load will give me confidence which will give me better shot placement and that is the ticket. Accuracy over raw power, that will be my motto!

 

[Idaho Ron]

:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are shooting more than 1/2 oz of lead with that PRB in .54 caliber, and that is nothing to sneeze at.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it here, but some members casts balls from Wheelweights, to get a harder ball that will penetrate further. The balls will be a little lighter in weight, but not enough to change your POA out to 100 yds., and the balls come out of the mold a bit larger in diameter. What size you actually get depends on the alloy of lead used. However, only in rare cases do you have to use a thinner patch material with the larger, harder balls. You might consider going that route, if you are at all worried about penetration on a Black Bear.

If you don't already cast bullets/balls, forget everything I have written about casting wheelweight balls, here!

Spring bears should not present the same penetration problems that Fall bears do, since the Spring bears have burned off much of the fat reserves that they carry into hibernation each winter, by the time they come out in the Spring. The Fall bears have lots of Fat under the skin and that makes penetrating to the vital organs more difficult.

I would do what you have decided, apparently, to do, and that is to stay with your favorite RB load for this Spring Bear hunt. Best of luck to you. I hope you are successful, and will share some pictures of your bear when you get back. :hatsoff:

 

[laufer]

Bill: Based on what you said about Oregon bear, then I will stick with the round ball here in Idaho. Instead of buying another conical barrel or shooting a limited number of conicals through the GPR for one hunt, I will stick with my "favorite" load, and thus have the most accurate hit.

I think sticking with my favorite load will give me confidence which will give me better shot placement and that is the ticket. Accuracy over raw power, that will be my motto!

have you thought of double .54 ball for bear?

 

[gjkershul]

Before I got my .54 GP hunter barrel, I shot Hornady GP 385 grain coonicals out of my .50 RB barrel. I was able to keep them on an 8.5 X 11 sheet of paper a 100 yds.

 

[jbtusa]

That was my next question. Instead of buying a new Hunter barrel to go on my Lyman .54 GPR just for one bear hunt, has anyone found a conical that shoots accurately out of the .54 GPR barrel?

But for this one bear hunt, I will be mostly shooting at the range and deer and elk hunting. The round ball is plenty for those critters. It's only the worrying of the bear running off and getting lost that has me looking for alternatives.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am assuming that your GPR has a 1:60 or 1:66 ROT rifling. If so, you need a " SHORT " conical to stabilize well, for any kind of long range. The LEE Precision, R.E.A.L. bullet should work in that barrel. You can try longer bullet- buy them, rather than cast them yourself-- in that gun, but they probably won't give you the best accuracy.

However, how many bears are shot much beyond 50 yds.? Talk to you guide or outfitter. If you are going to hunt over Bait, as is done a lot out East, shot are going to be 25 yds and under, or you won't even see the bear! At these short ranges, a heavy slug that groups "close enough" may be the better choice, for a big bear.

The other idea to explore is shooting Two Lead balls. Inside 50 yds, you are likely to see them go in the same hole, or very close to each other. That gives you double the " Whomp!" Most Black Bear taken are under 200 lbs., although they always look so much larger with all that long black fur! I would not worry too much about the effectiveness of your 1/2 oz. RB in that .54. I would rather see you confidently place a single RB into the heart, and lungs, of a bear, than try to do so with a projectile you are not sure about, or with a different powder charge than you are used to shooting. Accuracy is what its all about.

 

[jbtusa]

Yes the Lyman .54 GPR has a 1:60 twist. You mentioned that the Lee R.E.A.L. bullet might stabilize in the GPR. Which one? The 300 gr. or the .380 gr.?