Quick question: Model 1863 Springfield

[Sharpie44]

I was thinking about what my next black powder gun will be and I am a bit split. I want a fowler to hunt small game with but I'd also like a civil war musket like a Model 1863 Springfield.

I was wondering If I could use shot in one of those and kill two birds with one stone. I'm betting the answer is no but i though I would ask.

 

[sharps54]

You could go with an 1842 Springfield, it's a .69 smoothbore and could scratch both your Civil War and smoothy itches. The problem is that it won't swing and point nearly as well as a dedicated fowler.

 

[Zonie]

The military guns of the Civil War like a 1963 Springfield are all rifled muskets.

The rifling will mess up the pattern if shot is used in it, plus the shot will lead the bore.

 

[Sharpie44]

Ya I was hoping that there was a smooth bore so I guess I'll have to flip a coin and pick one. I'll probably end up getting a fowler flintlock kit.

 

[Zonie]

If you can find one the 1842 Springfield was the last of the Military smooth bores and the first Musket used by the Army with a percussion cap lock.

Several Italian makers have offered these over the years but I don't recall if they were rifled .69 caliber or smoothbores like the originals.

 

[Tumblernotch]

You can get either a smoothbore or a rifled musket in the '42. The rifled comes with the long range sight. I haven't been keeping up with who is making them now, but I think Armisport was.

 

[hounddog]

would a 1853 enfield suffice, It also was a very common gun used during the civil war. If the answer is yes I can help.Go to www.loyalistarms.com, they carry the 1853 enfield in a reinactors model in 62 cal (20 ga) smoothbore. The last time I looked they ran 505.00 plus shipping. I have one in the gun rack myself and am well saitisfied You got yours renactors gun, smoothie musket for shot and a .600 dia punkin ball slinger all in one gun. I am satisfied with my gun and Loyalist were plesant to do business with. Hope this helps yours hounddog

 

[Zonie]

Boy! :shocked2:

I've never heard of an 1853 Enfield smoothbore, let alone a .62 caliber one.

The originals as I understand it were rifled muskets in .577 caliber.

I suppose they might have been converted to smoothbores after the end of the CW. A lot of guns were so I don't know why they would be the exception. :hmm:

 

[Sharpie44]

I'm going to have to look into that thanks for the link. :bow:

 

[Okwaho]

Zonie I believe he is referring to the 1856 Pattern or East India Pattern Cavalry Carbine which was in fact rifled but should not be confused with the Native Police Pattern Carbine which was externally similar but was a smoothbore with a caliber of 0.65 and had a plain block backsight.
BRITISH MILITARY LONGARMS 1815-1865 P.47 by D.W.Bailey.

I believe some of the regular Pattern 1856 Cavalry Carbines mave been purchased by the South as evidenced by at least one copy made by Cook & Brother while in New Orleans.
CONFEDERATE CARBINES & MUSKETOONS by John M. Murphy Supplemental research by Howard Michael Madaus {2002} PP.52-54, Plates 12-14. Most other Confederate muzzle loading carbines of this type seem to be based on the British Pattern 1853 Artillery Carbine First Model of 1853 as well as the U.S. Model 1855 Rifled Carbine

This apparently is the gun being currently offered by Loyalist Arms and was likely not exported to America during the Civil War.I would very much like to see documentation for these smoothbore carbines being purchased by the South.

I can find no American carbines equivalent to the British Cavalry Carbines but there were some American musketoons designated as artillery and cavalry musketoons.

I highly recommend Dr.Murphy's second edition {2002] of CONFEDERATE CARBINES & MUSKETOONS with additional and corrective information.This book is in addition to his earlier CONFEDERATE RIFLES AND MUSKETS.
Tom Patton

 

[nit wit]

Put an ad on the classified board, lots of folks look at it and who knows what out there.
Nit Wit

 

[hounddog]

Gentlemen, Zonie is correct in that no 1853 enfields were smoothbore. Today they are, Loyalist arms is very clear in stating that their 62 cal is not period correct. They also say it reduces the cost of the gun considerable, the loyalist enfields are a good copy in most respects, I have compared mine with 58 cal repos and the reinactors, all agree it is an auccrate repo as anybody makes today. the loyalist will be from250 to 300 Less than similar rifled guns from other repo manufactures. As any of you know civil war reinacting, is shooting a blank load of powder and nothing else at all in the bore, this is for safety reasons. If you hang around a civil war reacting group you will run into the smooth bore muskets quits, and the CW reinactors dont seem to mind if the gun is rifled or not.The 1853 enfield is a pretty darn good copy, which meets all the requirements the originator of this thread is looking for yours hounddog

 

[varsity07840]

You can get either a smoothbore or a rifled musket in the '42. The rifled comes with the long range sight. I haven't been keeping up with who is making them now, but I think Armisport was.

It is Armi Sport. Still one of the best deals in
repro muskets.

Duane

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

would a 1853 enfield suffice, It also was a very common gun used during the civil war. If the answer is yes I can help.Go to www.loyalistarms.com, they carry the 1853 enfield in a reinactors model in 62 cal (20 ga) smoothbore. The last time I looked they ran 505.00 plus shipping. I have one in the gun rack myself and am well saitisfied You got yours renactors gun, smoothie musket for shot and a .600 dia punkin ball slinger all in one gun. I am satisfied with my gun and Loyalist were plesant to do business with. Hope this helps yours hounddog

Here is a new made Indian "P53" after it's second shot at a reenactment in Louisiana. This was a new gun:
http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8142&d=1305838449

Here is another view of the same gun:
http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8143&d=1305838468

This one has been making the rounds of all of the CW Reenactor sites and thought it would be good to show this for others' consideration. Take from it what you will. Keep in mind that this was the second blank round (no ball or bullet) fired from a new "gun".

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

According to the information I have, witnesses say (yes, there were witnesses) that no one was hurt..... Isn't that questionable?

 

[barracudadave67]

Also, remember the old addage "You get what you pay for", so.... shoot at your own risk.

barracudadave67

 

[Tumblernotch]

I remember sometime in the 80's that there were Indian made smoothbore Enfields being made for reenacting in Britain because of restrictive laws concerning rifled arms. That was what we were told by some of our English friends who came over during the 125th Anniversary. I've seen a few that were bought by US reenactors who used their muskets strictly for firing blanks. They were pretty shoddy pieces.

I've been away for over a week, so I'm just now catching up with what's been going on.

 

[TFoley]

I remember sometime in the 80's that there were Indian made smoothbore Enfields being made for reenacting in Britain because of restrictive laws concerning rifled arms. That was what we were told by some of our English friends who came over during the 125th Anniversary.

Just to put the picture square on the wall -

Here in UK smooth-bore replicas are counted as shotguns, and are far easier to licence than any rifled firearm. To acquire and possess ANY rifled replica - called a Section 1 Firearm here, just like a Barrett or any other modern arm - requires the prospective owner to be a member of a Home Office-approved gun club [there is no other kind] and the holder of a firearms licence [they generally go together].

tac

 

[Tumblernotch]

Now that you mention it, that's pretty much what they told us.