R Watt Side by Side

[gizamo]

Can't seem to find much information on this old percussion shotgun. I'm mostly done with reworking it into a field grade gun. Completely disassmbled, locks redone, and tuned. Been working on the the wood and still have some cosmetic repairs to do. She was a very well built gun and has stood the test of time. Been proofed again and I am now working on load developement. Both cylinders are improved and it patterns nicely at close quarters with 60grs of ffg and a 1 1/8 shot column...

Anyone that knows of resources referencing R Watts?

Have to love restoring an fine old side by side. Most of my work has been in modern handguns. But having been bitten by the BP bug...I thought it would be fun getting a old gal back into condition. :wink:

giz

 

[Many Klatch]

Wow, that is one bodacious piece of wood.

Many Klatch

 

[MSW]

great looking gun!

 

[Mike Brooks]

Very rare to find Birds eye maple in a british gun of that era, do you have any pictures of the engraving? Birds eye stocked british guns are almost always very high grade guns.

 

[Mulebrain]

Now that my friends is one sweet looking double!

Good to see her going back into service!

 

[nw_hunter]

Talk about Character in a piece of wood!
That is one fine looking double. :hatsoff:

 

[Dave K]

Is it a 12ga.? What is the barrel length? Are there proof marks on the bottom of the barrels near the breech? Any wording on the top rib? By the looks of the fairly large trigger guard bow and the long tang on the butt plate, it appears to be probably a fairly early perc. shotgun. Looks to be a very nice gun.

 

[gizamo]

Dave,

I measure the barrels at 28.5" and yes, it is a 12ga. A friend is helping on the barrel markings and hope to have a answer soon. A good friend down in Norther Texas has it's near identical mate...it is a a Liege-made A. Francotte. The two guns are almost as one..

I still need to do some stock repairs to the gun. Two areas under the barrel that need attention. But that is about all that is left to be done.

All this leads to the best part...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sometimes, the only way a lay person can "see" barrel markings, is by doing a paper rubbing. Put a piece of paper over the area of the barrel where you believe their are proof marks, or European " gauging " in metric measurements, and rub a pencil over the paper to " raise" the impression on to the paper. I have used this on old guns where tool marks, and rust, have obscured either the total marks, or enough of them that you can't see an " 8" from a "3" or "6", or "4" from a "7" or "1".

Just a suggestion. The fact that you have a friend with a nearly identical gun helps in both the ID and aging of the gun.

 

[gizamo]

Paul,

Thanks for the suggestions...good thoughts!

I should mention that it has the over pressure vent plugs under the nipples. I believe that makes the gun pre-date the 1850's...

giz

 

[gizamo]

Here are the marks...

 

[Mike Brooks]

British proofs. Got a picture of the buttplate and trigger guard?

 

Birmingham proofs, like Mike says. British, not Belgian. Congrats. Great gun.

Sean

 

[gizamo]

Mike,

Funny thing, I was just going to post this...a friend sent.

English - under the rules prior to 1887

Your shotgun barrels survived and passed a Definitive Proof at Birmingham - denoted by the BCP stamp - Birmingham Company Proof. The two marks were used to indicate proof for Black Powder only and were in use from 1813 to as late as 1904. The "V" mark is for "View" - indicating that the barrels were examined and measured by one of the Proof Masters and met all the proofhouse standards, such as barrel thickness, prior to the actual strain test.

I'll take the pics you asked for and post them in a shortly...

giz

 

[gizamo]

Here you go Mike...

giz

 

[Mike Brooks]

Yep, that's an early one. Are the tails of the locks closer together than the front?

 

[gizamo]

Mike,

Had to think about what you meant. Viewed from the underside...the locks are narrower at the tail then the front...

Curious as to why you ask?

giz

 

[JV Puleo]

Blackmore has a Watt/Watts family in the London trade from the 17th century right through the mid 19th. None of the later ones have a first initial of "R". Bailey & Nie don't have anyone with that name in their lists of the provincial trade. I'd guess its the London family but a member that was, for whatever reason, not listed in the city directories (which is where the listed information comes from). You say it has a name, does it have a London address? There was no regulation that a maker had to give his address but most London makers did it, supposedly to discourage the faking of their names that was so widespread. I've never understood why this was supposed to work unless it encouraged potential buyers to bring 2nd hand guns by the shop to have them authenticated... all of which seems a bit of a stretch.

As Mike B says, birds-eye maple was a fairly short-lived fad with "best quality" London gun makers from very late Regency Flintlocks to early percussion guns. I'd date yours right around 1840 which puts it on the tail end of the fad but is completely believable.

By 1840 most British barrels, and maybe all of the side-by-side barrels, were being made in Birmingham so the lack of London barrel proofs is not surprising. Even if it was London proofed the barrels would probably have come from B'ham.

 

[Dave K]

Very nice and a good find. You are correct in your post where you are shooting it, that is the best part. Take it hunting if you do hunt and enjoy the thrill. :thumbsup:

 

[JayDee Flohr]

Beautiful looking gun. I'm sure the PC/HC police will correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been informed that choked barrels didn't show up until after 1868. If the gun has improved tubes I would think it's built after that date.