Ramrods

[BrownBear]

As noted in another thread, I'm replacing the ramrod on my wife's 36 caliber (There, I admitted it- She's taken it over). Lots of good feedback already on materials, but I'm working on a short-term fix.

In my collection of treasure I have a straight-grained 3/8" hardwood dowel. With just a little sanding and smoothing it moves freely down the bore and through the thimbles. The original (aluminum) was only about 1/4" with a larger brass ball-seater on the tip.

Here are my questions:

1. Any problem with a rod so close to bore size? Should I drop back to 1/4" for any reason?

2. Any reason I can't use a plain wood tip to seat balls, rather than jury rigging a brass ball-seater onto it? I'll probably countersink the tip a bit to limit or prevent ball flattening.

Thanks for your thoughts and experience.

 

[musketman]

Back in the day of the mountain men, wooden ramrods were used...

I think you could get away with it, I see no problem in driving a ball down the barrel with a wooden tip ramrod, I don't think you could pull a stuck ball with it though...

As for the 3/8" hardwood dowel rod, there would be less chance of breaking this than a 1/4" hardwood dowel rod...

There is also better alignment with the thicker rod, the smaller diameter rod will cock off center a tad when using it, this could cause it could rub against the crown...

Whereas the thicker diameter rod will have less off center movement, less chance of hitting the crown...

If you are shooting home cast balls, the flat spure on top of the ball would do better with a flat tip ramrod...

Couldn't you take the brass tip off of an old 3/8" ball starter and fit it to the end of the new ramrod?

Just a thought...

 

[BrownBear]

Thanks for the feedback. I was considering adding the brass tip, but wanted to try the wood first if it would work. I use a mix of swaged and cast (bought a bunch of swaged balls before I got my mould), so I may countersink one end of the rod and leave the other flat. Probably too much confusion for my wife, but it's be there if she wants it.

 

[Darkhorse]

Even a straight grained hardwood will break. For best results it should be a good hickory rod. Just MHO.
I have a 4 foot hickory rod I bought at a Rondy over 25 years ago. It was my "Range Rod" for years. It has a flattened tip. It is just as sound now as it was when I bought it.
The biggest problem I see with a 3/8 dia. rod is clearance for the patch when cleaning. You don't want a gummy patch wedged against your ramrod. You should add a threaded tip to any rod. If you are hunting with the gun out in the bush then you will eventually need to clean it and you don't want to haul along an extra rod. Hence the threaded tip and the clearance problem.
I would not try and put a concave end on the rod and take a chance on splitting the grain.

 

[musketman]

I would also like to add a word of caution here...

You and your wife may know this already, but I feel it needs to be said for our new-to-the-sport members as well...

Since your wife used an aluminum rod before, wooden rods need to be handled just a bit different...

Once the round ball has been started with a short starter or thumb pressure, take short strokes on the wooden ramrod to seat the ball, about 6 to 8 inches at a time...

DO NOT HOLD THE END OF THE RAMROD AND TRY TO SEAT THE BALL IN ONE STROKE.

This will only break the wooden rod at the muzzle and impale his/her hand with the jagged edge of the protruding rod, I have seen this done, it makes a nasty wound...

Again, I'm not saying you'll do this, I just want to give a friendly reminder...

No one want's to see anyone get hurt...

 

[BrownBear]

All really good feedback. I hadn't considered the need for field cleaning, planning to use a regular cleaning kit at home. Sounds like the dowel is a short term "fix" till a replacement rod arrives.

As for the change in ramming methods, I'm glad you brought it up. I had figured that intuitively, but hadn't carried it through to field use. The short starter my wife uses has a hollow drilled in back to accept the butt of a rod. My wife really likes using that because it's easier on her hands. It's a habit she'll have to swear off for now, but it pretty well seals the decision to get another aluminum rod for her comfort and convenience.

Thanks!

 

[tg]

You can get a worm that will twist onto the plain wood end of a rod for cleaning, you can make one by heating and tightly turning a piece of coathanger or such around a bolt a little smaller than you rod size.

 

[Zonie]

Just for a bit of my experiance with a unreinforced wooden ramrod, after the "long" rod broke off of my starter ball I drilled it out and replaced it with a 3 inch long 3/8 diameter Hardware Store type dowel.
It lasted about 30 shots worth before the end mushed down and it split its full length.

I filed the end of my next 3 inch long 3/8 diameter dowel down so it "just" fit the inside of a 3/8 brass tube. This filed area was about 3/8 inch long.
I then cut the brass tube to length and pressed it on.
Well over 100 rounds loaded sense then and it still looks good.

The bottom line is the end grain of the dowel needs a hoop to support it.

 

[tg]

The vast majority of originals had no fittings and were flared at one end to give a larger area to bear on the ball, as most bores are much larger than the rod, I suspect that they may have been burnished well to harden them up, and that old time loading methods did not include as tight of combos that most feel are in order now. I am going to try an original type flared rod on my next project.

 

[BrownBear]

That's great advice.

I had been thinking about trying a sized brass 38 Special case to see if it's small enough to require slight inletting onto the rod. All I have at the moment are fired and not sized yet, and those just barely slide onto the sanded dowel. If I'm lucky enough and it works, I'll turn the rim off the case and do a rounded countersink on the face. The firing pin hole might look a little funny, but I bet it will function just fine. Baring that, I'll sort through some other cases for one even smaller- 30 Carbine, 32 Special, there's got to be something that's just about right.

Thanks!

 

[Zonie]

Quoting TG "...I am going to try an original type flared rod on my next project. "

I don't know if any original guns used it but my .36 Flint Northampton Boys Rifle has a tip I made out of a white cow horn. It flares outward about 1/16 inch on the diameter and is counterbored for the ball.

I'm a little leery of actually using it for fear of it breaking or splitting but it sure looks nice.

 

[Haggis]

Someone wrote me a while back and ask that I describe hand splitting a ramrod. It's a good trick to know and once you learn you only need your hawk and scalping knife to do the job. A fella can split one out and finish it for "primitive" conditions in under ten minutes once they learn the trick.

I know their are some other fellows on this forum that can do it and likely better than me, but I'll put something together and those who are better can clean up my faux pas.

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by BrownBear:
I'll sort through some other cases for one even smaller- 30 Carbine, 32 Special, there's got to be something that's just about right.BrownBear:
If you cut the bottle neck off of a .223 Remington, .222 Remington or a .222 Remington Magnum the lower body of the case is .375" diameter... (3/8")

The .30 carbine is too small, the rod tip would have to be reduced to fit it, plus it is a tapered case... .356" at the base, .336" at the mouth...

The .380 AUTO case will work, it is .374" at the base and .373" at the mouth...

If you were to resize a .38 Special or .357 Magnum case it may be tight enough, but it will require you to laythe off the rim of the case flush, the rims extends to .440"

All measurments are quoted from the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, third edition...

 

[Stumpkiller]

A few years back I did some experimenting with hood hardeners to reinforce the heads of cedar arrows. A product called PC-Petrifier did a good job of hardening the wood.

http://right-tool.com/pcpetwoodhar.html

The arrows outsmarted me by breaking beyond where they had been treated, but it might be just the berries for preventing the tips of self-wood ramrods from splaying out.

As noted, the problem with a bore sized ramrod is cleaning patch clearance. So, you can solve that by not using a patch and cleaning with tow fibers. The old timers would scour the end of the ramrod with a knife to give it grooves to grip the patch/tow. Tow would then be wound on. You could also solve it by cutting a slot in the end you don't use to seat the ball and inserting the patch in the slot (but I've only seen this done on metal ramrods).

Or, contact a place like Northern Riflemen and get the ramrod tips you need, or buy a ready-made.

http://www.northernrifleman.com/Ramrods.htm

 

[Haggis]

Stumpkiller,
If you shoot cedar arrows you've most likely footed a few arrows with some type of hardwood.

For ramrods, where splitting could ba a problem, perhaps Sycamore, Elm, Beech, or some type of nearly impossible to spit wood could be used on the last two or three inches of the business end?

One might even used some very dark imported wood for contrast. It's just a thought.

 

[Haggis]

"A hard-rock maple ramrod with purpleheart ends certainly would be a thing of beauty."
Aye it would Stumpkiller.

On footed ramrods, one could argue that brass, copper, horn, and even iron have been and still are routinely used, but I doubt anyone ever called it by that name.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I would gamble that it has been done, but I don't recall ever seening one or reading about a footed ramrod. Unlike an arrow, weight and spine stiffness just aren't major concerns for ramrods. The army don't care if you gotta lug a metal beaste around. Hickory is tough to improve upon, and if it breaks it is (was) easy to replace. The originals were much less apt to break because they were split with the grain and then drawn through a swage block to compress and round the shaft. Modern ones are routed round from sawn stock and the grain is violated, sometimes severely. So they not only split when you're pushing them, but then they have a nice sharp edge to jamb into your hand.

A hard-rock maple ramrod with purpleheart ends certainly would be a thing of beauty.

 

[Darkhorse]

Brownbear,
Go to www.octobercountry.com and check out their choices in ramrods.
You might find something you can live with. While your at it, order a catalog. The catalog goes into better detail on some items.

 

[BrownBear]

Lots to work with in your responses. Thanks folks. If I end up fashioning my own, I'll share the results.

 

[BrownBear]

Just a quick follow-up:

Still haven't located a replacement solid aluminum rod like I want for the rifle, but here's the short-term fix:

I ended up using a 5/16 dowel. For the tip, I found that a fired 25-20 WCF case cut off at the shoulder is a press fit on the dowel. Turn off the rim, remove the primer and hollow a cup in the face of the case. Affix it to the dowel using hot cement intended for work on fishing rods.

It's servnig fine till something better comes along. I hand-picked a dowel with continuous grain, but I'm still careful about splitting. Doesn't solve the need for attachments, but I've got a field cleaning rod that breaks down into 6-inch lengths that I carry just in case.

It sure was fun to shoot that little 36 while I tested this for a few shots, but my wife has already reclaimed it. What's worse, she's still shooting more hares than I am!