Range Report and Advice Needed

[bilder]

Well I finally got the chance to take my CVA Bobcat .54 cal down to the range. I placed the target at 50 yards and fired a variety of loads ranging from 60 to 100 grains.

Every shot was low no matter the powder charge. It was not until I started to aim for the top of the target or higher that I started to get on paper.

Do I need to file down the front sight?

I was shooting Hornady .530 round balls with pre-lubed .015 patches, Goex 2f and CCI magnum caps (had two misfires off them). Cleaned after every shot with a wet and then a dry cleaning patch. Here are a couple photos. The first shows the grouping below the target and the other shows the patches I was able to recover from the range.

Any advice, wisdom, or opinions welcome.

Thanks!

 

[bilder]

Oh I forgot to mention that I had an absolute BLAST! All that smoke and the dull BOOM! that was loud even through the ear plugs. The guy next to me got really interested in muzzleloaders watching me. This was my first time shooting a side lock and only my second time shooting ML's at all.

Can't wait to go again....

 

[BrownBear]

Sure sounds like time to file on the front sight, but I wouldn't do that till you get those patches sorted out. I'd be real inclined to go to a .018 or even .020 patch to keep them from shredding.

Once you are getting patches in good shape, then it's time to file the front sight down a very little at a time.

 

[roundball]

Agree...need a thicker patch...always finalize the components & shooting groups before worrying about where the group is printing.

 

[bilder]

What causes the patches to shred like that anyway? Too much gas behind them or does the barrel have anything to do with it?

Will pick up some thicker patches tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Those patches are all blown to hell!

I concur with my brethren. Go to a .020 patch if it fits with a short starter. Once you stop burning & blowing patches, the group you shot might rise due to higher velocity, so get the patch problem fixed first, then worry about where the groups hit the paper.

Considering the look of those patches, you grouped quite well for that distance :haha: so keep up the quest!

And have fun doing the do.

Dave

 

[sc45-70]

If the gun is new, sometimes it may take several shots to smooth out some of the machine marks in the barrel. Shoot it another 100 times and then see how the patches look.

 

[bilder]

If the gun is new, sometimes it may take several shots to smooth out some of the machine marks in the barrel. Shoot it another 100 times and then see how the patches look.

It is a used gun I got on a trade. Not sure how many shots the prior owner put through it.

 

[Zonie]

If those patches are pre-lubricated and you got them with the gun they may be very old.

In my experience, old pre-lubed patches are often very weak and they will shred like the ones in your photo.

Before getting thicker patches, try to find some un-lubricated patches and lubricate them with patch lube (or spit) right before loading them.

You might find some "pillow ticking", a strong, blue/white or red/white striped cotton material, at your local cloth store.
If you can measure it you should look for something that is about .018 thick.

I would defiantly try that before switching to a thicker patch.

 

[Bill Hall]

I agree with Zonie. Those patches aren't just failing a little bit, they are EXPLODING. It really looks like you got some bad material there.

Changing to a thicker patch now may solve your problem, but you may also have a dickens of a time getting the balls down the bore. If the thicker patch has good accuracy, you may get it in your head that you are doomed to use thicker patches that are tough to load, just because you assumed the thinner patches that failed were good to begin with.

If you like the way the rifle loads now, try getting close to the same thickness of NEW material for patches (per Zonie's pillow ticking suggestion). A little crisco, olive oil, or spit is all you need for lube to test the material.

Like others have said, once you solve the patch problem, and once you are getting good groups, then it's time to fiddle with the sights.

Doesn't that rifle have an adjustable rear sight? When all is said and done, can't you just raise the rear sight, instead of filing the front sight down? If not, and if it's still shooting low, you will need to file the front sight to bring the point of impact up. Good luck, Bill.

 

[bilder]

I bought the patches the same day I got my powder, which was about 10 days ago. They may have been sitting on the shelf for a long time. Not sure how much ML stuff the shop sells.

They are TC brand pre-lubed patches. I will get some more patches of various thickness and see what works best for me.

 

[MSW]

Bilder, i agree with the general consensus ... haven't seen patches that badly blown in some time. You should try thicker ones, from pillow ticking, with fresh lube, and see if that works ...

On a similar note, if you haven't already done so, get a copy of Dutch Schoultz' monograph; it is amazingly informative and will tighten your groups if you follow his directions. MONEY WELL SPENT!!

One more thing- don't file the sight until after the groups are as tight as you can get them.

'til then- make good smoke!

 

[rawhide]

to me it don't look like your patches or blown through they look ripped. patches maybe rotten or? try a little oive oil or bore butter on them see if that helps. if not get some new ones. mite try thicker or the same size. or it could be the barrel still has sharp lands and needs laped or shot in.

 

[ebiggs1]

I would do the simplest and easiest things first. :grin: Try more lube on the same patch material. Whether it be olive oil or Bore Butter but not spit. Did you just use them as they came from the package? Maybe they were dried up. Try 70 grs of GOEX and shoot a lot. Be careful you are not pushing crud back down the barrel with all that “cleaning”! :hmm:

You might want to try 25 yards first instead of 50.

 

[rdillion]

I've never had real good luck with pre-lubed patches. Put some more lube on the ones you have. Your barrel may be rough depending on how much it has been shot or how good it was cleaned in the past. My brand new 42" 40 cal Green Mountain barrel took 150+ shots before it finally settled down and quit cutting patches. Sure had a lot of fun getting there. Just another excuse to shoot. :grin:

 

[bilder]

Update:

Went and bought some patches in .015 and .018 unlubed and headed to the range after work.

I shot everything at 70 grains and reduced the cleaning patch to every 3-5 shots. Each patch was lubed on sight just before being rammed down the barrel.

What a difference fresh patches make! The .018 ticking was a bear to get down the barrel, but it shot well and the patches came out intact and I would dare say that one could reuse them if you wanted to they are in that good of shape.

The .015 patches also remained intact. Some have two small holes in them on opposite sides of the ball. I noticed that these holes appeared right after I cleaned the barrel out and then were not visible after the first shot.

As for accuracy, I am still shooting low, not as low as yesterday, but still 5-6 inches low and to the left just a tad. Ironically, my groups were much tighter yesterday than today. I had shots all over the place. Think I was thinking more about the patches and the dang misfires these caps have been giving me (I am going to try another brand next time) were probably making me flinch more than yesterday.

I am going to have to get in some more range time to get used to the gun before I start to file away at the sights.

I have put around 35-40 balls through the gun in the last couple days, most of them today. I have a gun that needs a bath and then I think I will need one too.

Here is a photo of some of the patches from today.

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

Not sure how many shots the prior owner put through it.

I would bet not very many. He may had the same problems you are seeing and given up.
In regards to the patch holes see a nearby thread... holey patches

As to the misfires, you mean it goes click, no bang, but fires the second time? This can be 2 things (maybe more) that I've encountered with a CVA. 1st, the hammer may not (probably doesn't) strike the nipple completely evenly. It may strike more heavily in the front or rear. If it is off just a little bit you can gently file the high edge of the nipple till it strikes evenly and will cut a clean circle out of a bit of paper. Once you get that even, file the chamfer back around the rim of the nipple. 2nd, some old nipples had no chamfer, if so file a chamfer onto it.
see, no chamfer on the center two, not much on the right one and good on the left one...

This chamfer helps concentrate the hammer blow in a smaller area, good if you have a lighter hammer spring than it ought to be.

DO NOT try to turn the drum to bring the nipple to square with the hammer. This is a notoriously weak point in any gun and shouldn't be messed with.

 

[BrownBear]

That's more like it. Good report!

You are likely to find that by the time you get up into the 100-200 shot range those holes will go away as the lands smooth a bit. And if there proves to be no accuracy advantage to the .018s, I sure wouldn't continue using them!

 

[luieb45]

At a rendezvous a couple weekends ago there were 2 kids that were shooting cva bobcats and they both were only firing on the second shot. Another guy in the club has one and says the problem is a weak mains spring in the lock. Could that be true?

 

[bilder]

Not sure how many shots the prior owner put through it.

I would bet not very many. He may had the same problems you are seeing and given up.
In regards to the patch holes see a nearby thread... holey patches

As to the misfires, you mean it goes click, no bang, but fires the second time? This can be 2 things (maybe more) that I've encountered with a CVA. 1st, the hammer may not (probably doesn't) strike the nipple completely evenly. It may strike more heavily in the front or rear. If it is off just a little bit you can gently file the high edge of the nipple till it strikes evenly and will cut a clean circle out of a bit of paper. Once you get that even, file the chamfer back around the rim of the nipple. 2nd, some old nipples had no chamfer, if so file a chamfer onto it.
see, no chamfer on the center two, not much on the right one and good on the left one...

This chamfer helps concentrate the hammer blow in a smaller area, good if you have a lighter hammer spring than it ought to be.

DO NOT try to turn the drum to bring the nipple to square with the hammer. This is a notoriously weak point in any gun and shouldn't be messed with.

That is what is happening. Will be fine for several shots then the next couple will take two strikes to get the cap to fire, then the next few will be fine, etc....

I also noticed something else. I am a lefty and my right wrist has been sprayed by hot stuff coming from the caps every now and then. Got some fine little burn marks to prove it. Feels like little bug bites when it happens.