Range report: my first flintlock

[hickok45]

Well, I bought the Bess carbine/trade gun Friday, but it was yesterday (Saturday) evening before I got a chance to take it outside and try it.

All in all, it was a blast! On my first shot I admit to missing a twelve-inch plate at twenty yards as I anticipated the pan flash, the delay, the recoil, etc. But, the thing worked. I've never been so delighted over a miss! My wife was on the porch and was confused as to why I had such a big smile on my face and got so excited; she could tell I missed the steel plate.

Basically, little or no information came with the gun, so I've been relying on the advice from this forum almost entirely. Truthfully, I was expecting sparks without boom occasionally, but it fired about the first 10 to 12 rounds without misfire.

Then it hit a spell where it wouldn't even light the pan. I think I had Ballistol on my hands and got it on the frizzen and flint. After I cleaned both with some alcohol, that problem went away.

I made some pretty good shots out at my steel targets 50 to 75 yards away. Honestly, though, I was surprised when I heard the gongs ring. It's so strange having that time between when you pull the trigger and the ball leaves the barrel. Great training for concentration and follow-through!

It's definitely a different animal in the gun world, but I like it. Ironically, it was getting dark and I needed to wrap up and clean, but I kept missing. Never quit on a miss, you know.

Ironically, on my "last," last shot, I got my patch sideways or something and just finally let the ball fall down the barrel against the powder without the patch. I primed it carefully, keeping the ball from rolling out the barrel or away from the powder (Yeah, cartoon city). I carefully brought it up and hit my gong at 75 yards without a patch and a .715 ball that would actually have rolled out the barrel if tilted enough. I'll watch that, as I know well how important it is that the ball be seated against the powder.

The trigger is a bit heavy and creepy,so that makes the whole deal even more of a challenge, but I think I'm going to really enjoy this contraption. Probably unlike many on this forum, I shoot mostly my Colt SAA's, my Glocks, my 1911's, my .45-70's, etc. The muzzle loaders are an occasional (once or so a month)endeavor. Don't know, though; I might be spending more time with these babies now that I've discovered this new technology: the flintlock!

By the way, I was wondering how hunters in a tree stand or how a soldier wanting to be prepared for battle carried these things: pan primed and hammer at half-cock? Hammer at full-cock? Seems a bit at odds with safety concerns, but if I were a deer hunter, I can't imagine not having the pan primed and the hammer at least half cocked. In fact, as loud as that hammer is, I don't think you'd get many shots at deer unless you sat with it at full cock. Just curious.

Sorry for the lengthy, rambling post. I'm still giddy over using flint and steel to spark off those 75 caliber balls last night. It's also the downside of being about to type faster than I can think.

I'll be posting some question about this nifty Bess over the next days and weeks. I want to be able to take it apart and such. Doubt that I'll work on the trigger myself, but I'm anxious to get that lock off. Can anybody share a website that has good info on disassembly/gunsmithing of the Bess?

Thanks,
Hickok

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hickok: You carry the gun primed and with the " hammer " on half cock. To cock it quietly, you hold back the trigger, while you pull the cock back, and hold it back, then release the trigger so that you can lower the hammer into the full cock notch. Try it. It works. ( use the same technique with that .45-70, and your single action revolvers. )

You can also hold the action against your stomach as you cock it, and put your other hand over the lock to dampen and redirect any sound the lock makes upward, where a deer is much less likely to hear it.

 

[mckutzy]

ahh yes.... welcome to the dark side....of powder of course..heheh :grin: :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[FlintlockJonny]

I haven't shot a modern weapon since acquisition of my flintlock last Christmas. Only for Groundhawgs! Have fun with your new addiction.

 

[redwing]

For making the gun safe and more weather proof use a frizzen stall. This is just a leather sock that goes over the frizzen.Cut the finger out of an old leather glove it will work. You can tie it off to the trigger guard when hunting.
To make sure the loose ball does not damage the gun put a wad down the barrel on top of the ball. You can ruin a barrel if the balls moves forward. :thumbsup:

 

[shootemup]

Congratulations Hickok,
I've been considering one of those guns myself. Haven't been able to decide whether to get the gun you bought or a full-length Brown Bess. I had a cut-down cheapo Bess for a while this past year but traded it away with fair warning about a very rough trigger.
It sounds like you're doing very well with patched roundballs, I do something a little different when shooting roundball from my fowler - I load it the same way I would load shot. I drop my powder in, then a 1/2" fiber cushion wad, unpatched roundball, then an overshot card.
Lotsa fun, them smoothbores...
Mark

 

[Leonredbeard]

Hickok,
welcome to the addiction. You are a tender child yet. Some of us have been addicted so long that we have been driven to lighting the pan with even more primitive devices. There is no way out now. You are along for the long ride
volatpluvia

 

[krasnayaznamya]

Another option: if you want to do it "military style" you prime the pan first, shut the pan, then toss about and put the powder, ball and paper down the barrel.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you prime first, that is how you get a slow ignition, FTTttssssBoom! You should prime last, for safety if for no other reason, and you need to poke a vent pick into the vent hole to open a clear channel into the powder charge in the barrel so that many granules of powder are ignited, rather than just one or two exposed in the vent hole. ( kBOOM!) Is how a properly set up flint lock should sound when it is fired.

There is not reason to be shooting live ammo with a military loading technique today.

If you are shooting blanks, who cares if it takes time to fire the main charge. But, don't use that technique with live ammo. Who would let someone be working on the muzzle of the gun, pouring down powder, and then pushing a ball or conical down the barrel with a metal ramrod, with the gun primed, and the frizzen closed? :youcrazy: Just how close do you have to go to prepare for an accidental discharge, before it finally happens? :shake: :nono: :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[krasnayaznamya]

I defer to safety in all accounts, no question, but is it more dangerous one way or the other if you are handling your weapon properly?

I beg to differ that there is a reason and that is for live fire for our Regimental events, meaning when we shoot at targets, not blanks. There was sufficient reason for priming first to have it in both army's manuals, wasn't there?

Time and a place for everything. Certainly wouldn't have a ball rolling down the barrel, that's for sure.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Those manuals were written by Aristocrats, who considered the common soldier hardly worth noting. Their lives were cheap and expendible. If they died or were horribly injuried by " friendly fire " even if it were a preventable accident, it did not matter to the officers. It was just one less man to feed.

Life was cheap, as long as it wasn't their own. Even the lives of non-commissioned officers were expendible, and cheap. It has been that way with soldiers and armies since the dawn of civilization.

I would not justify anything because it appears in a manual of arms. What they did worked for volley fire in close ranks. soldiers were nothing more than pawns on a chess board, to be lost at whim, with no second thought. I don't want anyone treating my life that cavalierly, do you? If I am the range officer, You will not be priming the pan of your gun before the gun is loaded. That is to save your life, my life, and the lives of other shooters and spectators around you. And I won't give a plug nickle what some PC guy claims should have been or should be. Its a dangerous practice and I will not allow it on my firing line.

Don't feel bad. When I ran a gun club, I would not let skeet shooters rest the muzzles of their barrels on their toes either. Toe tab, or not. I have a good friend who managed to put a .22 cal bullet through his foot because he picked up a loaded gun off the ground, without the safety on, and with his finger obviously on the trigger. He lost his balance and clutched his hand, firing the gun and sending the bullet through his own foot. He managed not to break any bones, or sever any arteries. In 6 weeks he was walking again fairly normal, and without his crutch, or cane.

I have no interest in seeing a skeet shooter put a 75 caliber hole in his foot because he forgot and pulled the trigger of his gun before he took it off his foot. Boy, did some of those skeet shooter hollar about my rule. Tough. No one got shot on my watch. Several men complimented me for hanging tough on the issue. They always though it was crazy what they saw these guys doing, but never said anything. Once I was put in charge, I had no where to " Pass the buck". So I said something. :thumbsup:

 

[krasnayaznamya]

We'll just agree to disagree. As a retired member of the armed forces, I beg to differ on the expendability and cavalier attitude being "throughout time" in terms of the disregard officers had of troops, even in the Revolution.

Thanx for your info, I'll apply it on the range.

 

[paulvallandigham]

KZ: Concern about the common soldier began after WWII, although not really at the beginning of the Korean conflict. By Vietnam, the attitudes had changed 180 degrees, and when we went to the all volunteer army, anyone one left with the old attitudes was retired. I think that eliminating the Draft both got rid of this idea that enlisted personnel were better than draftees, and the discrimination and ill treatment done to draftees was ended. In the process, the officers could no longer justify how they treated men in boot camp, drafted or enlisted, and that ended. When women were introduced to the force, a lot of the old timers who had survived hazings, and physical abuse left the services, leaving a new group of officers and Non-coms, and a new attitude about the value of soldiers. You won't find any officer lining up his men shoulder to shoulder to march at the enemy , or stand and take fire from them in the open.

I believe that battle field tactics that date from the age of Alexander, and before dictated how officers looked upon the common soldier. Until we stopped open field face to face volley fire as an " honorable " way of conducting a war, it was pretty hard to expect officers to fight a war any other way. I am not impeaching the personal character of any officer. I do believe, however, that history showes that officers came from the aristocracy and privileged classes, usually purchasing their ranks, without spending one day learning anything about military tactics. Even at the time of our own Civil War, officers were "Elected " or commisioned based on their money and ability to raise a company or regiment. The began reading military books and manuals of arms after they received their commissions. That is just how things were done.

 

[krasnayaznamya]

I guess what I'm not clear on is the issue with priming a Bess before you put the ball down. You prime at half-cock and shut the pan before you come about. Even with ramming, you're still at half cock and I don't remember hearing of anyone experiencing a discharge while at half cock at all the events I've been to.

You would think with thousands of rounds being fired over the years, someone would have had an issue, yet nothing.

 

[CrackStock]

I don't remember hearing of anyone experiencing a discharge while at half cock at all the events I've been to.

I have.

The half cock notch on a tumbler is a very thin bit of metal that can and does fail. I do load in the military method for re-enactments, but am always careful to not trust that half cock notch overly much.

CS

 

[krasnayaznamya]

When/where was that?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hlaf cock notches have been known to break. Our range officers always checked every gun being used in any parade by our members to see that the half cock actually worked, before the gun was allowed to be used in the parade. One gun failed the test, to the shock and concern of the owner. He had only owned the gun a few months, and had never checked the Half cock notch.

By my analogy, most skeet shooters use break open action shotguns. When the gun is broken open, it cannot be fired, and I don't mind people resting the barrels on their toes, although I think its a bad habit. I caught a 16 year old kid one day with the muzzle of a Remington 1100 shotgun ( Semi-auto) trying to force his breechblock closed over a bulged casing, with the muzzle on his toes.I yelled at him to stop it, and had him throw the shotgun shell away. I gave him one of my own to replace the defective casing, and warned him of the danger he was placing himself in. He had learned to shoot using his father's break open shotgun, and obviously also copied his father's practice of resting the muzzle of the shotgun on his toe. Now, he had his own 1100, and he was resting that muzzle on the toes while trying to force the block home! Yipes! He didn't even understand my concern after I explained it to him. His father came running out of the club house all mad at me, for scolding his son. I faced him down and explained in a very loud voice what his son was doing and what might have happened if he had managed to slam that block home. I also told him that I was in charge of this range, and our club, and I didn't want us being sued by him or his son because of some stupid safety violation. I then asked the father to teach his son the difference between a break open shotgun and a fixed barrel shotgun like his Rem. 1100. The father calmed down, and shut up. I walked away before I hit him. After the kid finished his round of skeet, the left the range. I understand that the father disliked me thereafter, and would not come near me when I was at the club. I could care less. He later cheated the club out of buying a trap machine so he could have his own trap range, making his own bid, when he was suppose to make a bid for the club. He angered a lot more people than me after that stunt, and I know a lot of shooters who would never even talk to the guy again, much less shoot with him. He was pretty well ostracized by the Trap and Skeet shooters.

The one thing I have learned in almost 50 years of shooting, is that pure accidents do happen. Parts break, and you never expect it when it happens. If you aren't paying attention to where the muzzle is pointed, and what is in front of it, someone or something gets destroyed. With MLs, the problem is magnified because you have to load everything down the barrel. I don't want a primed pan and a closed frizzen and a cocked hammer on any gun I am loading. Even a hammerstall on my frizzen does not calm my nerves. They have been known to fall off.