Rear sight on a smoothbore

[Murphinator]

I love BP, even though i do not hunt. However, like many, these old eyes(72) wish they had better sights on them! It gets frustrating when you can't hit beans, and you know you ae better than the results you are getting!

Yea for example out of the 3 ml's i kept out of the lot one of them is an H&A .45 Underhammer with a 24" barrel. I can cosistently hit a paper dinner plate out to 80 yards with a consistent 3" group (needs improvement) but not bad for only practicing for 3 weeks about 3 days a week. However I doubt that rifle's ability to bring down a large sized deer with a short barrel and small caliber like that. I dont think it will pick up enough velocity to make a clean kill. But a smoothbore can do it and it can do it to anything in the woods in that hunt season.

 

[Sooty Scot]

You could add a rear sight fairly easily. I've thought about it for my Fusil de Chasse, but decided to train my eye instead.
The last time I checked there was a clean, well-made, brass peep sight, which mounts on the tang screw, offered in the Accessories section here.
That would let you try a rear sight without having to drill or cut a new dovetail in your barrel.

 

[Timber Wolf]

IMHO, accuracy with a gun that does not have a rear sight has a lot to do with “fit”. That is the gun needs to fit YOU in a way that when you mount the gun to your shoulder it is in the same, comfortable position each and every time. Since your eye is the rear sight, consistency of hold is paramount. Guys spend serious bucks getting “bespoke” shotguns made to achieve this. Or, you could just shoot the snot out of a gun until you fit it. ; )

 

[tenngun]

Rear sight won’t make the gun ‘shoot small’, as lots of fine targets are had by folks sans rear sight.
The thing is that consistency in hold, the so called cheek weld.
However my first shotgun was a Savage bolt action. And it had a rear sight. So that was the way I learned to shoot it. I just don’t get consistently with out one…and I’ve tried.
So I went with rear, makes it so much easier for me
My Lancaster smooth rifle and ultimate heresy my TFC

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Rear sight won’t make the gun ‘shoot small’, as lots of fine targets are had by folks sans rear sight.
The thing is that consistency in hold, the so called cheek weld.
However my first shotgun was a Savage bolt action. And it had a rear sight. So that was the way I learned to shoot it. I just don’t get consistently with out one…and I’ve tried.
So I went with rear, makes it so much easier for me
My Lancaster smooth rifle and ultimate heresy my TFCView attachment 146298View attachment 146299

works for me!

 

[OhioHawkeye]

I hope I dont ruffle any feathers by asking this but are any smoothbores specifically flintlocks produced with a rear sight ? I recently got a Pedersoli Brown Bess that was in somewhat poor condition in a lot of muzzleloaders that I bought from a deceased neighbors wife. I cant seem to hit the broadside of a barn. I started with paper cartridges then patched round balls and I just cant hit that damn plate lol(@50yards). I think its because I cant get that bayonet lug in the same spot twice and to be honest the Bess just doesnt hold right for me it is a nice smoker though. My question is are there any smoothbores made today like a fowler or fusil that have a rear sight ? I would like to use one for deer hunting .62 caliber is enough for me I think as .75 eats into my lead supplies.

sure, makes it in a different category for completion but many people do that.
My question to you though is are you sure you want to do something like that?
If you can't get it to hit the same spot on the bench twice, adding a rear sight will not change that.
Review your sighting practices and do everything consistently.
rear sight or not, make sure you have your wood on the wood at the same spot and you see the exact same thing each time you pull that trigger.
I have a fusil which I have to remember to use the base, not the tip of that front sight as the aim point there...same level on the back. Some people put a whiteout spot on a point close to the lock..usually about the point of the rear tang screw to make sure they see their reference point. (in training only, not in competition)

 

[Murphinator]

sure, makes it in a different category for completion but many people do that.
My question to you though is are you sure you want to do something like that?
If you can't get it to hit the same spot on the bench twice, adding a rear sight will not change that.
Review your sighting practices and do everything consistently.
rear sight or not, make sure you have your wood on the wood at the same spot and you see the exact same thing each time you pull that trigger.
I have a fusil which I have to remember to use the base, not the tip of that front sight as the aim point there...same level on the back. Some people put a whiteout spot on a point close to the lock..usually about the point of the rear tang screw to make sure they see their reference point. (in training only, not in competition)

I think one of my largest problems is that the Brown Bess just doesnt fit me well or just doesnt hold well to me. My friend has a Veterans Arms Fusil de Chasse and I can hit the his 8"×12" target at 50 yards with the rear sight he installed. That is why im thinking that I need either a rear sight or a different style of firearm. Ive seen many posts on this forum stating that the Bess is a military arm and is made for volley fire en masse while a trade gun is made for taking game. I think the Bess not being a proper fit is my main issue but I also have the "cheek weld" issue too im sure.

 

[Cutfingers]

I always use the rear domed tang screw with great success.

 

[tenngun]

I had a bess in the 1980s that I used as a shotgun primarily. And killed a bunny or two with it. I could get deer hunting accuracy with a .69 patched ball, but used my rifle exclusively then.
The gun was stolen from me.
I got a TFC in the middle 90s and it’s become my favorite gun. However for years I wanted a NWG.
The stock is not as beefy as a bess, but similar shape. And I found it just not to fit me. The TFC comes naturally to my sight plain. An extension of my arm as it were.
While the NWG for me came high and to the right.
That’s just fit for sure. And people can be dangerous accurate with a bess, or a NWG.
Still a gun needs to fit just to fit in your harem
I think the bess is the most beautiful military arm ever made. But would take a ‘66 charley for me, or better yet the older calfs foot

 

[Murphinator]

I had a bess in the 1980s that I used as a shotgun primarily. And killed a bunny or two with it. I could get deer hunting accuracy with a .69 patched ball, but used my rifle exclusively then.
The gun was stolen from me.
I got a TFC in the middle 90s and it’s become my favorite gun. However for years I wanted a NWG.
The stock is not as beefy as a bess, but similar shape. And I found it just not to fit me. The TFC comes naturally to my sight plain. An extension of my arm as it were.
While the NWG for me came high and to the right.
That’s just fit for sure. And people can be dangerous accurate with a bess, or a NWG.
Still a gun needs to fit just to fit in your harem
I think the bess is the most beautiful military arm ever made. But would take a ‘66 charley for me, or better yet the older calfs foot

I have an 1809 3rd Model Bess which I hardly ever fire on account of its age and the Pedersoli I got just doesnt feel the same once you have fired an original. The Pedersoli also just doesnt fit. The TFC you mention does that mean Tulle Fusíl de Chasse ?

 

[tenngun]

I have an 1809 3rd Model Bess which I hardly ever fire on account of its age and the Pedersoli I got just doesnt feel the same once you have fired an original. The Pedersoli also just doesnt fit. The TFC you mention does that mean Tulle Fusíl de Chasse ?

Yes, it’s a Centermark so a little less then a true copy

 

[SOLANCO]

I think one of my largest problems is that the Brown Bess just doesnt fit me well or just doesnt hold well to me. My friend has a Veterans Arms Fusil de Chasse and I can hit the his 8"×12" target at 50 yards with the rear sight he installed. That is why im thinking that I need either a rear sight or a different style of firearm. Ive seen many posts on this forum stating that the Bess is a military arm and is made for volley fire en masse while a trade gun is made for taking game. I think the Bess not being a proper fit is my main issue but I also have the "cheek weld" issue too im sure.

If it doesn't fit well and doesn't hold well you are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. You have two good options: Restock the gun to fit you. Or sell it and move on.

 

[beardedhorse]

I'm not surprised at the lack of accuracy with some Brown Besses. They were designed for volley fire using a .69 round ball in a paper cartridge in a .75 bore. If you use a tightly patched .715 or larger round ball and added a rear sight and altered the bayonet lug front sight you might do a lot better. The domed rear tang screw worked well enough on my 12 gauge Curly Gostomski trade gun to harvest 4 white tail bucks. You can hit pop or beer cans all day at 25 yards with it but beyond is anybody's guess. My .60 Tulle has an octagon to round barrel and unfortunately the rear sight eye relief requires it be mounted on the round and thin part of the barrel. No dove tailing or metal removal here. My choices are to solder a rear sight on or try an epoxy or super glue like Black Max. One local gunsmith uses J B Weld and swears by it but I'd hate to draw bead on a big game animal only to notice the rear sight has fallen off and is lost in the woods. Currently the dome head tang screw on the Tulle will keep them all on an 8 inch paper plate but with a rear sight I'm hoping for adequate accuracy to 50 yards.

 

[hanshi]

Years ago I got an American (flintlock) fowler and had a rear sight installed while it was being built. It turned out to be a very good decision. The 20 ga gun gets fed prb loads and they group 3-shots in under 3" at 50 yards consistently. No getting used to a slick barrel, I just fire it like a rifle. With bare ball loads it can put 5-shots in a 4" to 5" group at 50 yards, again consistently. I've never been a shotgun aficionado but more of a dedicated rifleman. The rear sight proved itself on targets at the range and on deer in the bush. Left target is from bare ball loads and the right target was fired with prb.

 

[BP Addict]

Smoothbore rifles have a rear sight. It's kind of an oxymoron as rifles have rifling. I didn't think it up and they've been called that for years.

A friend of mine put a rear sight on his 62 caliber Tule so it can be done. Is it historically or period-correct? Probably not.

It's your gun. Do what you want!

Walt

 

[oldwood]

The only thing I'm concerned at my age , is smacking a deer out of a 16 Ft. ladder stand at short range. Also I love to go to the range and shoot off the bench at 50 to 60 yards. If I can hit well at 50 yds off the bench , I can hit a deer , where I hunt. . Been there , done that. Love ground deer.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I recently had the opportunity to look at the original rifles and smooth bored guns in a collection. The smooth bored double barrels had the front bead. Of about 5 smooth bored guns, three had rudimentary rear sights on the barrel. The other two were military guns and had no rear sight. I believe that many of the civilian single barreled smooth bored guns did have rear sights.

So, if @Murphinator wants to put a rear sight on his Pedersoli Brown Bess, then he should put a simple sight on his Bess.

 

[smoothshooter]

It is bull to say that fowlers and smooth rifles are not historically correct if they have a rear sight. Any colonial with a brain would have added a rear sight if they thought it was needed. They were not worried about being historically correct, just hitting what they aimed at! (IMHO.) There are examples of many types of smooth rifles & fowlers having rear sights, that is all it takes. You find one example, the precedent is set. Put a sight on if you need one!

I have seen several guns from the 1600’s thru the early to mid-1800’s that had rear sights. The majority looked to me to have been put on the guns when they were made, but in most cases it is impossible to tell.
One gun that I saw 20+ years ago was a flint Fusil de Chasse with a rear sight in a museum in Brussels, Belgium. Had belonged to some member of the local royal family in the early to mid-1600’s. The gun was profusely engraved and had silver inlays on both wood and metal. The sights were engraved silver, and the lines of the engraving flowed continuously from the sights onto the top of the barrel, so I think it is a fair guess the gun was built with sights included.

 

[flconch53]

They certainly were made both ways
The no rear sights was just to level the field for competition. If you want to shoot a smooth rifle in competion shoot against rifles or on woods walks.

 

[OhioHawkeye]

I think one of my largest problems is that the Brown Bess just doesnt fit me well .......I think the Bess not being a proper fit is my main issue but I also have the "cheek weld" issue too im sure.

That is what I am suspecting. Unless you have a reason not to change the geometry of the wood, I suggest you do something about that before going to the trouble of a rear sight. A sight will help later if you are one who prefers them. However a rear sight is not really necessary for reasons I mentioned and someone showed you about the screw in a photo earlier..

1 have fun with it. .. you have a challenge ahead that is not unsurmountable.
2 be patient with yourself and thus with the firearm
3 have fun