Reasons for Misfires? (igniting main charge)

[Grenadier1758]

When you are talking about a breech cleaner, do yo mean one of those flatblade screwdriver looking attachments?

The flat screwdriver type is more applicable to a flat breech where there is no patent breech. Your Cabela's Hawken has a patent breech.

No, more of a wire brush that could be used to clean a pistol of about 0.38" diameter and that can also catch a dry patch. That brush will get into the patent breech and the brush will scrape the fouling off and the dry patch will carry the crud away. Then be sure to pick the touch hole since fouling will be jammed in there after cleaning the patent breech.

 

[outbackzack]

Just a quick suggestion with what works for my Traditions flintlock; When I am loading, the first step, before measuring the powder, I slide a piece of electric fence wire into the touch hole. I use electric fence wire because it is what I have on hand that fits snugly. Then I pour the powder, and seat the ball, remove the wire, prime, aim, **** and shoot. It works enough that it has become part of my loading routine.

 

[bluesman]

Ok so I am still having the flash in the pan and and no fire issue, and it appears after a half a dozen shots or so.

Using new flint, Goex 2F in the chamber, and 4F in the pan (mostly full). I was sure to use only slightly damp patches cleaning after each shot or every other shot and running a dry patch both sides.

I also started cleaning the patent breach and lots of firm crap was there.

When I had a misfire I poked the hole with a paper clip and shoved some 4F from the pan onto the chamber and it would usually fire?

So what is the general rule for probing the touch hole. When, how how often?

thanks!

 

[Baxter]

Pick inserted into the flash hole WHILE loading the main charge then charge the pan. I'd not go stuffing powder into the vent. baxter

 

[bpd303]

Don't need to mostly fill the pan with priming powder, less is better.

 

[Many Klatch]

Well if you are still having problems after doing all the rest of the things it may come down to the size of the touch hole. Try enlarging the touch hole. Use a #52 drill or a 1/16" and you will probably see a big improvement in reliability.

Many Klatch

 

[satwel]

When I started shooting flintlocks, I too wiped between shots with a damp patch, followed by a dry. I read that that was what the experts did to ensure accuracy. I had my fair share of flash-in-the-pans. Then at one match, I decided not to wipe between shots, only between relays. No more flash-in-the-pans. I can shoot 3 events in a day, four relays each, without a single flash-in-the-pan. Putting moisture in the bore between shots causes crud to collect in the breech. Between relays, I wipe with two slightly damp patches, then let a dry patch sit in the breech for approx. 5 minutes.

 

[Zonie]

I only wipe the bore when the last load I rammed down shows signs of becoming difficult.

Yes, the super duper target shooters wipe their bore every shot but they're looking for every advantage they can have (real or imagined).

I differ with some on the idea of plugging the vent hole too.

With the vent directly in the side of the barrel, I don't see a problem with plugging the vent if that makes people happy.

With the many TC, Lyman and Tradition guns that have a small hole that connects the bore with the vent, I do see a problem with plugging the vent while loading.

When the main powder charge gets dumped down the bore, it somewhat compacts itself at the breech.
This is the same as the "drop tubes" that the BP cartridge shooters do.

Note, When this happens, little or no powder will find its way into the small connecting flame channel hole that connects the bore with the vent.

If the vent hole is left open, when the patched ball or bullet is rammed down the bore the air under it needs to escape.
If it escapes rapidly thru the unplugged vent hole, it will blow a goodly portion of the main charge along with it to end up at the vent hole.

In this position, it is right where it needs to be to pick up the flash of the priming powder.

If the vent hole is plugged while ramming the patched ball or bullet some of the air will escape past the patch or the bullet while a small amount of it will escape thru the vent hole.

A small amount of air won't blow much if any powder down thru the flame channel hole to the vents location.
If the shooter is lucky, there might be enough to pick up the prime's flash but if almost no powder is in the area it will result in a flash in the pan.

This isn't true with just the flintlocks.
A lot of the percussion shooters who have these powder chamber (patent) breech designs have found the same thing to be true.
If they leave the hammer down or a spent cap on the nipple (effectively plugging the escape path for the air), little if any powder gets blown back thru the flame channel to the bottom of the nipple so misfires will be common to those guns too.

At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :grin:

 

[Don Steele]

Stick to it Jim...I'm thinking "your story" has merit. Your discussion also brought a question to my beginners mind. What about the use of Drop Tubes for muzzleloaders..???
Do they have a place..? Is there already a body of testing and experience using a drop tube when pouring powder down the barrel ?
Thanks.

 

[dbutch]

Hit the easy button.

Your loading jag and wiping patch size matter.
amount of wiping lube mater.
I use a spit wiping patch..and test different size wiping cloth thickness.
I run the spit patch to the bottom and let it stand 10 seconds. This lets the patch soften the fowling under it. when correct the patch goes down easy sometimes over the fowling. on the up stroke the patch gets compressed and tightened to bore size taking the fowling up and out..You will need to test different patch wiping material for this to work.
Patch down.let stand and then out..no pumping!
Flip patch over and do it again!
Next dry patch..same story down-stop-up.. no pumping.
turn it over down-stop-up.

Give it a shot...
..........................................................................
Sounds like you have a chambered breach plug...

Have you dropped a lite down the bore and looked at the chamber size?
an undersized bore brush with patch will clean the chamber much better,
Do you have a vent liner protruding into the chamber?
Does the shoulder on the chamber have a smooth curve?
Your breach chamber size(too small) might be an issue.
Fowling can bridge over the chamber shoulder and keep the powder from reaching the flash hole channel.
With out removing the breach plug..it is possible to polish up the chamber from the muzzle.
Steel rod,bore protector,cordless drill,wooden plug shaped to chamber bore size and shape.

As a side note..all of my factory rifles with chambered breach plugs have been drilled larger and polish to 1000 grit wet and dry.
Smooth shoulders easy to clean.

If using a different swab routine does not work... look at your chambered breach.

Good luck..and please report back on this issue when resolved..we all learn that way!....dan

 

[Dphar]

As a newbie flinter shooter I have had pretty good good luck with reliability of my rifle. The last time at the range I shot around 10 rounds swabbing wet then dry between shots, then all of a sudden I got a no-fire (pan ignited OK). I inserted a paperclip in the touch hole, and got another no-fire(pan ignited OK). Cleaned the hole again and then it fired normally????

You have to use a damp patch only when wiping between shots. Also its possible you are getting fouling build up in the breech.
So, use a loose fitting jag and a rather large patch for the bore size. This will allow the patch to pass over the fouling to some extent when pushed down but bunch up when the rod is pulled back taking the fouling with it. Using a tight patch pushes the fouling to the breech in front of the patch. The patch should not be dripping wet. This will put too much water in the bore. Some experimentation will be needed to find the right level of dampness. If you can easily squeeze water from the patch it may be too wet.
I do wet patch both sides, dry patch both sides.
Note, for best accuracy the wet patches should be kept in a container and they are wetted the night before so then are ALL the same water content. If I think they are too wet I squeeze water from the whole batch at one time.
I use heavy diaper flannel or store bought patches of the same material. "Hard" finish cleaning patches meant for modern nitro/copper solvents are not that useful.


Dan

 

[bpd303]

I found something that works perfectly in my rifles for damp patch wiping. It's those blue shop towels that come on a roll. Some kind of paper fabric and very absorbent. I just tear off the right size, put a drop of moose juice in the center and once down and back out, turn over & repeat. It pulls out all of the fouling and I'm good to go with the reload.

 

[Billnpatti]

"I swab with a wet patch, turn it over swab again and then a dry patch both sides? "

Good procedure and, in my opinion, the correct way to do it. I always pause for a few seconds when I run the damp patch to the breach and then remove it. One stroke in and one stroke out. Flip and repeat. The patch should be only damp, not wet. Then one stroke in with the dry patch and one stroke out, flip and repeat. Run a pick through the touch hole and you are ready to reload. I think your problem may be that you are using too wet of a patch. If so, you could get enough moisture in the breach area that your powder could get damp and not fire. The best remedy for this, if it happens, is to work a bit of 4f powder in through the touch hole and some in your pan and it will set off the main charge.

 

[bluesman]

One thing that is not being clarified here is what kind of patches are being used during the firing sequence.

I am using store bought pre-lubed round yellow patches for shooting. They are not wet and I am imagining that that would change the frequency of wet patch cleaning needed. What are most of you using?

 

[bluesman]

Thought provoking ideas. I don't have a bore light. Maybe it is time to invest! I also have not been picking between every shot. The crud in the breach its clearly thick and wet and needs further investigation

 

[dodger]

I have also been using those yellow pre-lubed patches [ Traditions ?] and have found that heavy fouling occurs after 3 or 4 shots . My rifle is a Lyman GPR .50 cal , it doesn't make any difference whether I shoot .490 or .495 balls .
The fouling seems to occur between 1/3 to 1/4 of the distance from the muzzle .
Swabbing reveals very damp and green fouling on the cleaning patch . I think that swabbing out the barrel just pushes that mess down into the breech ,which doesn't help matters at all .
When using spit and a regular patch ,I don't get the fouling problem . I'll continue with spit , it's free and in plentiful supply .