Received the .725" RB Tanner Mould Today

It was mailed on the 7th July - that's almost 4 weeks for me to receive it from England. Too bad it's time in Canadian Customs doesn't have to be accounted for.
: The mould looks good - is made of brass & and quite small in overall size - of course, it takes Lyman or RCBS handles.
: Even though it doesn't have a sprue cutter, I think I prefer it to Lee moulds, due primarily to the soft aluminum of the Lee moulds - I have many Lees, in several RB sizes and various sizes of bullets for various guns, modern and not so modern.
; The finish inside is just great, as is the design. As long as you can get lead into the sprue hole, it will cast a round ball as it can't be out-of-round due to the locating 'ring' being concentric to the inner cavity.
: Now- have to get a money order off to cover the $30.00US charge which includes shipping. It's a good price, some $20.00 US less than a Lyman mould - however- I still prefer the Lyman Cast steel blocks in the sizes they come in - BUT - I will buy more of these Tanner moulds as they come in any size I can dream up as being necessary or might desire to try out. I can see a .740 in my future, for paper ctg. shooting if the .735's aren't big enough for me. With a .745" or .747", a person might get off 2 shots before having to swab - no patch used, just wads - interesting - the possibilities that arrise when any size can be made. The .745" should weigh around 650gr.- Yeah - that sounds about perfect - what do you think?.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Sounds right. The Bess was .735" or 11 ga, 7000/11 = 636 grains for a lead ball.

I liked .650" in my .662" fusil, so .725" in .735" would give similar results.

Whatcha gonna put a .747 in (except a hangar!)?

 

I've ordered a .745" ball mould for shooting naked balls with wads from the .75 Bess. If they are too tight for my .75 Bess, they will be perfect for Taylor's Long Land .77 cal. Bess. The .735" Lyman ball he's using, makes him use a .030" patch and he'd like to use a .020" to .022" denim patch as that meterial is easier to get than the really heavy stuff.
; As well, I just received the musket flints and pan brush I orderd from October Country along with a catolog. I ordered 1" and 1 1/2" as they both fit just fine. The larger ones allow 'just' touching the frizzen when at 1/2 cock, which I like. This also allows easier frizzen knapping the flint than do the smaller, shorter flints.
; Both create impressive sparks with sizzleing around inside the pan, quite impressively, about every-other dry-fire - can't help that as I like to do it. I guess it's a hang-over from competition shooting with modern guns- dry-firing is necessary for trigger training. In all the tousands and thousands of dry-fire practise shots I've taken, including shots in competition I've never broken a firing-pin spring.
; The October Country order was sent by them on the 1 July, so it took almost 5 weeks to get here.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Both create impressive sparks with sizzleing around inside the pan, quite impressively, about every-other dry-fire - can't help that as I like to do it. I guess it's a hang-over from competition shooting with modern guns- dry-firing is necessary for trigger training. In all the tousands and thousands of dry-fire practise shots I've taken, including shots in competition I've never broken a firing-pin spring.

Some guns aren't bothered by dry firing - a Colt 1911, Ruger revolvers, many bolt-action centerfires.

Some are: percussion guns without caps, Colt 1873, most .22LR rifles, many bolt-action centerfires.

It's bad on the firing pins that don't have a return spring (crystalization, work hardening, deformation) and/or the action springs. Luckily, there's snap-caps for most cartridge guns, and a spent percussion cap can be re-used many times in a percussion.

A flintlock with flint can be dry fired all day long - it's the same action whether there's powder in the pan or not. Just further proof that they're the perfect firearm. ::

 

As most of my match rifles have had either Winchester Match or VZ 24 Mauser actions, there has been no problem with them brakng any parts. I've not tried cap-lock guns without some form of nipple protection, but still used them for trigger and breath control.

 

[musketman]

The .745" should weigh around 650gr.- Yeah - that sounds about perfect - what do you think?.

I think I will offer my services in helping to shoot these, just mail me around 500 or so and I'll get back to you... :winking:

I often wondered about shooting a ball with no patch, a ball that is, for the most part, shaved off on it's sides when loaded, like a cap and ball revolver does when pressing the ball into the cylinder...

This would be cool...

 

Well, you could order a mould from Greg for, say, .760", then make up a Lee-ype die for your loading press to swage or shave them to .750" or whatever your bore is. You could then load your 1 shot (probably no more without cleaning) & experience the leading common to shotguns shooting naked slugs without lube. Of course, you could use a lube ball just as we load in Paper Patch bulleted ctgs. for the buffalo rifles & that would help, but that naked lead against the barrel would still streak. It would be a nice heavy ball, though. I do think leading would be a problem & will consider rolling the .725" balls in lube of some sort.
: I'm expecting fair results with the naked ball loads. With only 2 1/2 thou windage, they should shoot fairly well, and with that windage taken up with paper(or aluminum foil) for that first shot, should be quite accurate as well.
: Unfortunately for us, the .735 ball will probably be the best for paper ctg. shooting and at 620gr., it's close to being heavy enough. Taylor was quite pleased when I told him about the .745" mould I had ordered & showed him the .725" I had received. Perhaps I'll just give him the .745 for his birthday (early) and let him cast some up for me.
: Incidently, last weekend we hosted the Canadian National 3-D Archery Championship contest in Prince George, B.C. Taylor, of course shot his long bow, a custom "Algoma" bow made locally. Unfortunately, he lost the primitive category by 1 point after the two day event, with the primitive Canadian champion being another local guy, Rick Neunam, also shooting an Algoma (Goamer)bow.
: Taylor started the shoot off with a primitive arrow, split from a fir block, fletched in goose with moose sinew and black flint point also tied on with moose sinew. The bow was one made by Taylor, sinew backed- the shot was 50yards at a grizzley bear and it the 10 ring, dead centre. It was raffed off, bringing in $650.00 to the club. That amount is the normal price for one of his primitive Indian bows.
: After the event, they had a contest to find the overall Canadian Champion. After several tied, tie breakers between Taylor and last year's Candian Champion, the prevous guy finally won as being this year's Champion as well.
: Taylor's arrow rattled his, but was on the outside, not inside, so he lost by 1 arrow's width. They were both 10's. While Taylor shot cedar shafts, fletched in Turkey from his long bow, the winner won using his compound, lazer sighted trigger released auminum shafts from his new, state-of-the-art compound. I wonder if he felt as much a winner as this position should have given him - by one arrow's width and his competitior shooting along bow with cedar shafts. Yeah- Taylor's :master:not only a good ML shot & riflesmith, he's also a pretty good archer. That final event was sort of like competing with a smoothbore musket against an accurate, scope sighted in-line.(with me shootng the long-bow, that is)

 

[musketman]

I'm expecting fair results with the naked ball loads.

What if you took the bore sized ball and rolled it under a large rasp file to knurl it (like a ball-et has) then use the indentations to hold the lube in the bore sized ball?

Would that work better, in your opinion to reduce leading?

 

Rolling it between steel plates might work better. The rasp will actually increase the ball's size as this is the method I use to increase the size of the .69 slugs that come from my home-made mould as well as putting grease holding indentations in them. Now, if you took the .745 ball, and rolled that one, you might bring it up to the dia. of the bore for abeter fit, but then, due to the ball's radius, perhaps it would make the ball smaller - I expected my slugs to get smaller, but they didn't. Perhaps that was due to being flat sided, if short. The slug's dia. increased, due to the lead extruding into the rasp's cuts. So- it may be possible, due to the ball's radius, that they might decrease in size AND get the grooves/cuts needed for lube. Well, I'll try rolling a .715" right now.
: OK HA!- I rolled them on the floor as I've always rolled the slugs on a folded towel to protect and increase the size.
; The WW ball increased .002" while the pure lead ball increased .007". THAT was with the flat of a 1/2 round Wood Rasp and with the ball on the conctete floor. They would definitely hold some lube & it will be easy for the .745 to come up the .005" to fit the bore closer. GOOD idea for that one and it will also hold lube on it, instead of all the lube wiping off as it rolls down the bore.

 

[RussB]

OK fellers!.......I'm sorry you guys finally dropped this thread, I was really getting into it.
I have never shot a "naked" ball, but that urge has always been there. I guess the smart side of my brain finally whupped the dumb side, and has me waiting and wanting to learn a bit more about this before jumping in.
Now, if I remember right, it is either Musketman's or "Stumpy's" turn at bat.
Lay it on me fellers...everything ya know about this subject!

BTW Daryl...Jeff Tanner moulds are HARD TO BEAT! And, Lee handles fit quite nicely, making for a custom mould w/handles for under the $50 mark..... So much for that, you guys get back to that round ball thingy again.

Russ

 

[musketman]

Shooting the "naked" round ball is like shooting a maxiball or minie-ball, the lead touches the bore on them as well...

Make sure you lube them after rolling the balls under a rasp, trial and error will tell you how much pressure to use when rolling them...

As stated before, first shot or two with a patch, just to foul the barrel slightly then rolled projectiles there after...

I don't see why this wouldn't work in smaller bores as well, a .56 smoothbore will also shoot a patchless ball...

What to do if you roll the ball too much?
Melt down and recast or hammer the ball round again...

As stated above, the ball will increase in diameter when rolled under a rasp file, why?

The metal is being displaces and the peeks from the rasp's cuts make a larger over-all profile...

I would suggest making a go, no-go gauge out of wood to get the proper size when rolling...

Figure out what size you want to end up with (roughly) and cut a series of holes in a block of wood to drop the balls through, anything passing through the high but not the low hole is good...

 

[RussB]

Thanks Musketman....Just a couple more quick questions.
Are you using the "same" roundball you have been patching? Or do you get a mould a a few .000 larger?
Also, Is the lube the same used with the patch, or do you make up a lube a bit thicker?

Finally, would you elaborate just a bit on.... "As stated before, first shot or two with a patch, just to foul the barrel slightly then rolled projectiles there after..."

I assume...There goes that word again! I assume you mean after they have been rolled between the rasps or "dimpled" in some manner.
I will be shooting these in my 16ga.smoothie FWIW.
Thanks again, Russ

 

[musketman]

Are you using the "same" roundball you have been patching? Or do you get a mould a a few .000 larger?
Also, Is the lube the same used with the patch, or do you make up a lube a bit thicker?

I patch a .715 round ball with .020 pillow ticking lubed with usually #13 or wonder lube...

The rolled balls are .735 when cast, rolled to around .742-.745 diameter and double-dipped in a wax-alox mixture (25%-75%)...

The rolled balls are carried sepperatly from the others, even though you can tell the difference because of the wax...

I carry them inside of a

:shocking:

The ziplock is covered by a period correct hunting bag, don't want to upset the balance of nature, nope, not me...

 

[RussB]

"The rolled balls are .735 when cast, rolled to around .742-.745 diameter and double-dipped in a wax-alox mixture (25%-75%)..."

Great! I think that is what I was looking for. Now...with a .648 ball I should be looking for about .658 after rolling?
I don't have the Alox for my lube mixture, but I have a fairly thick / stiff lube I made up for another project I will be trying. Actually it is a mixture of Rooster Red, Anhydrous Lanolin, and B-Wax...we'll see.
(It's almost 7:00am, got a match today and another tomorrow afternoon, so it will most likely be Monday before I can get back to this.....don't run off!)
Thanks,
Russ

 

Russ - beeswax and vaseline(or neetsfootoil) makes a superior BP lube than any alox blend. By adjusting the beeswax content, you can have any 'hardness' or viscosity you want.
: The Tanner mould is very difficult to use. After using Lyman & Lee moulds for 30 years, I was much disappointed in the Tanner mould. IT is slower to use, and due to it's small overall size with large balls, overheats very quickly. After 5 or so balls from a warm mould, one will be perfect, and the next won't be hardened when you open the mould, even though the sprue is solidified. This is due to the fairly long channel to the "mould's" (English/Canadian spelling) cavity allowing he sprue to harden, but the rest of the ball is still molten.
: Both my bro and I were casting with Wheel Weight metal, and he gave up on the Tanner mould after casting 15 balls of which only 4 were good enough to shoot. He said the balls came from the mould at .744" which is very close to the requested size of .745". They were out of round by .0005"( 1/2 thou) at the most- perfect, in other words. My casting left me with 8 good balls out of 20 cast. I had pre-warmed the mould on top of the pot, but it still took quite a few to start getting good ones, then the mould overheated- damn. For casting just a few balls, or for a calibre not carried by other makers, these moulds might be OK,. but for casting a lot of balls, it's back to the Lyman moulds for me. With the .715 Lyman mould, I cast well over 200 per hour.I spent a couple hours just getting 8 good ones from the Tanner mould. Perhaps other people's results will vary. I can see that smaller balls will turn out better, due to the size of the blocks in ratio to ball size. The big ones, just don't seem to work well. Shame.

 

[RussB]

Daryl.......
"Russ - beeswax and vaseline(or neetsfootoil) makes a superior BP lube than any alox blend. By adjusting the beeswax content, you can have any 'hardness' or viscosity you want."

Thats good news! The bad news is your experience with the Tanner Mould! I just finished dimpling / rolling 30 ball that I cast yesterday evening. They are .648, and if I experienced the problems you've described with your mould, I was not astute enough to see it. I have been VERY pleased with my mould from Jeff. My first sitting, I did about 70 ball, if memory serves me right, and shortly after I started casting with the new mould I realized this was indeed a "slow" mould. I then wet a fairly large towell, wrung it out good, put it on the bench, and started placing the top & bottom of the mould, alternately, on the towell for just a second or so after each dumping. It did slow the process considerably by breaking the "rhythm", but no more than some of the other larger caliber moulds I cast for, ie .575213 PH from Lyman. (I believe, with all my heart, this is the "slowest" mould I have ever used.)
BIG moulds get awful hot! period.
At least in my experience.
Try my method for cooling the mould, it has worked for me for a looong time. My son is a much, much "faster" caster than me, and he can't stand it, even refuses to cast the big slugs, so,....double duty for myself has taught me a bit of patience when doing these, which may explain why I'm always short on these big slugs when it comes time to shoot 'em.
You guys are much sharper than myself, and you've taught me things on this board I never heard of before coming here. In view of this, I'm sure there are more ways than one to skin this cat, and I bet (hope) you get it all worked out.
Respectfully, Russ

 

[Jim Trahan]

Last Thursday I cast 23 Lb. of RB with Jeff Tanner's .648 mould. It heated up quicky, and maintained temp through the casting. I was pleased with the balls it made, and I was shooting them on Friday. Today I recieved another mould, .530 from Jeff. I look forward to trying it.

All comfort to you,
Jim Trahan, Waco, Texas

 

[RussB]

Last Thursday I cast 23 Lb. of RB with Jeff Tanner's .648 mould. It heated up quicky, and maintained temp through the casting. I was pleased with the balls it made, and I was shooting them on Friday. Today I recieved another mould, .530 from Jeff. I look forward to trying it.

All comfort to you,
Jim Trahan, Waco, Texas

Hi Jim, Welcome to the forum. The .530 from Jeff will also be my next mould. Looking forward to hearing what you think about this mould. I would also like to hear what kind of "speed"...if such can be said...you get while casting the .648.
Both daryl and myself feel it is something of a "slow" mould in comparison with some other makes. What's you thoughts on this?
Respectfully, Russ

 

[Jim Trahan]

Russ,
Thank you for the welcome.

Yes, this is a slow mold, but my method of making the pour had alot to do with it. The 23 Lb. of RB took 5 hours to complete, including cutting the sprue.

A tip from Don Getz, keep pouring lead into the mould after it's full.

It slows things down but worked great for me, no ripples like I would get form other molds. I take my time, enjoy the day, and make the best ball I can. After I cut the sprue, I take my chassing hammer and tap it smooth.

I had 3 balls that were not keepers, slag inclusion. Should have fluxed more often.

All comfort to you, Jim...

 

I know my negative post makes it look as if I don't know how to cast a bullet/ball/whatever. I will try the wet towel next time, as having a bucket of water standing nearby for dunking, as I used to do, is a VERY bad, dangerous, thing to do. I normally cast up hundreds of pounds of lead each year as I shoot lead in all my handguns and rifles, except for the .17's. The rest, from .22 Hornet, on up to the .50 and now the Bess at .75, all get lead, from pure to hardened and tempered wheel weights depending on urpose and gun. It is rare to have to re-melt many, if any, from a casting spree. Unless used for centre-fire competition, I rarely weigh bullets and never weigh balls, except for finding the weight or as a consistancy check as below.
; Yesterday, I spent about a couple hours to cast up some 35 balls, about 2 1/2 pounds of lead, including melting up about 15 pounds of wheelweights and cleaning it. I found that cutting the sprues of each ball before casting another gave the correct cadense to casting for the .725" ball and it went just fine, with no rejects this time. It is still way too slow a casting rate, but I do like the resulting balls. I am not certain, however that the quality of the balls is as good - I weighed 10 of each, some .735's from a Lyman mould as well as 10 from the Tanner .725 mould. The Lyman casts, while less round, were all within .5gr. weight, while the Tanner's variance went to 2 gr. While 2 gr. diff isn't much, it does show a tenedency to small air bubbles, not present in the Lyman mould castings. This could be due to the relatively sprue small hole in the Tanner mould. The smaller nice does make the cutting of sprues and rounding so much easier than a larger hole would.
; BTW- the reason I hate casting and standing over the molten lead pot for long periods of time, is the exposure to fumes and the sometimes light-headdedness I get from it. After over 32 years of casting and shooting lead, along with cold weather indoor practise with poor ventilation, I am certain I have lead poisoning to some extent- impossible not to. Because of this, I will use the Tanner moulds for short casting sessions only, when casting for specific purpose, such as for bare-balls for the Bess, but for general shooting, it's Lyman moulds all the way - no others are as fast. I include RCBS with Lyman as they are about equal.
: The .745 Tanner mould casts at .744" and are perfectly round, unlike Lyman moulds. My 725" Tanner mould casts .720" and are out .001".(new batch of WW has more Antimony than the last- up here, it changes and is higher content than StateSide, apparently)