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Recommendation for first build by newbee

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SDawg

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I am looking for recommendations to build a percussion muzzleloader (traditional weapon-say late 1800's style) as a birthday present for my 12 year old son (we would both work on it, of course).
We recently shot a .50 cal ball gun based on roughly an 1870 weapon (the kit was a friends that he had built 40 years ago) and enjoyed it. That friend had some advice, but much was dated (40 years!)-for instance, that we get a kit with an already blued barrel (which I haven't been able to find), and he recommended companies that don't apparently have what we are looking for.

So what is the latest view? I am not a gun guy (though I spent 25 years in the Army), and am not a master woodworker (though I can do a bit). Thus, I am looking for a reliable, relatively straightforward kit that would be fun and relatively forgiving for a dad and a 12 year old.

Thanks in advance,

Sdawg
 
I would suggest one of the CVA or Traditions kits. Don't let the bluing be an obstacle. As said above, you can polish the metal bright or use one of the liquid bluing formulas. Here's a good source for kits http://www.deercreekproducts.net/store/

If you encounter problems you can find help right here on this forum.

So, welcome to our little corner of the web.
 
Just to add on, I've built quite a few kits including Lymans, CVAs and traditions. By far the easiest to build was the Traditions Deerhunter. I have used it to take deer, coyotes and grouse. My grandkids have shot it in competitions and have taken some first places with it.

It would make a good rifle for a young man.
 
take your time with a kit. none come perfect even the high end ones. look up how to rust blue or brown in your kitchen oven. i get rust blueing or rust browning from brownells. wash the barrel in water with baking soda when you get it where you want or it will keep rusting. use leather dye for stain on the wood. then use oil or varnish what ever you like on top of that. use HUTS POLISH AVAILABLE from the internet to polish it out. if their is gaps to fill in the wood take paper towels and stain them to the same as the stain on the wood. put a good glue in the paper and fill the gaps. file and sand down when dry. make sure you stain the paper as it wont stain if you use as is. its not rocket science but it is tricky. go slow, mine always turn out very good but ive been at it for a while.
 
All-
I am looking for recommendations to build a percussion muzzleloader (traditional weapon-say late 1800's style) as a birthday present for my 12 year old son (we would both work on it, of course).
We recently shot a .50 cal ball gun based on roughly an 1870 weapon (the kit was a friends that he had built 40 years ago) and enjoyed it. That friend had some advice, but much was dated (40 years!)-for instance, that we get a kit with an already blued barrel (which I haven't been able to find), and he recommended companies that don't apparently have what we are looking for.

So what is the latest view? I am not a gun guy (though I spent 25 years in the Army), and am not a master woodworker (though I can do a bit). Thus, I am looking for a reliable, relatively straightforward kit that would be fun and relatively forgiving for a dad and a 12 year old.

Thanks in advance,

Sdawg
There are basically three very different kinds of kits.
There is the kind that are made by the major muzzleloading rifle makes like Traditions, Pedersoli, etc., there are some companies that will sell a semi finished rifle and there are the kits sold by companies like Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River, TVM, etc.

The first kind are unbuilt and unfinished production guns. All of the screw holes and mortises for the trigger and lock have been cut and the stock is almost finished. These usually do require a little wood trimming to get the metal parts to fit and they need some sanding to get the surfaces of the stock to line up with the metal parts. The barrel usually needs some sort of finish like bluing, browning or just polishing and leaving it "in the white" meaning they look like bare steel.
These kits usually take the builder from 15 to 30 hours to complete. (Yes, some people have put these together and called it "done" after just a few hours but their guns look like crap.)

The kits that are semi finished, often called "in the white". TVM offers these. They are made from the semi-custom parts used on high quality custom guns but the stock will require sanding and a little shaping and the barrel is left unfinished. All of the parts are installed on these kits.

Last, there are the kits that consist of a roughed out stock with the barrel channel and ramrod hole cut. The stock will need to be shaped and sanded and finished. All of the mortises for the lock and trigger will need work to get the parts to fit. Things like the ramrod thimbles, trigger guard, patch box and almost everything else will need work.
The lock is totally assembled but the hole for the lock screw that holds the lock in place is not drilled. The trigger assembly is put together but screw holes to hold it in the stock do not exist.
In fact, none of the screw holes exist so some knowledge of drilling and threading holes is needed.
It will take a person with wood working and some metal working skills about 120 to 180 hours of work to end up with a good rifle made from this kind of kit.
On the plus side, these kits are available in many different styles and all of them can be made to look just like an original gun if the builder takes his/her time and works carefully. To make something that looks authentic a lot of research needs to be done to find out exactly what the finished gun will look like.
Anyone attempting to build a rifle from one of these kits needs to buy at least one book that gives them the instructions they need to know.
A good place to start with a book is "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". It isn't that expensive and even if one doesn't build a gun, it is a interesting book to read.
 
If you have the bucks get a kibler kit.

I would highly recommend the CVA or Traditions 45 or 50 caliber KY rifle kit. I built one myself at age 10 and it was easy enough and shot very accurate. Gun bro_ker and e-bay often have em. Will spend about 200-300 on the kit. They come in Cap or flintlock. A hawkin kit will do as nicely as the KY! The Kibler is a many many degree better product but I believe you will shell out about 1K?
 
Unless you want a big challenge, this is another suggestion for the Traditions DeerHunter kit. Traditions has taken over the place of the old CVA kits of decades past. The DeerHunter has a short barrel and is fairly light weight, suitable for youngsters or small women. It has a hooked breech which makes it easy to remove the barrel for cleaning. The kit requires some sanding and shaping, is ready to screw together, and the barrel can be left in the white to achieve a natural patina. Even I can assemble kits at this level. My first muzzleloader was a CVA Kentucky pistol kit I put together almost 40 years ago. I still have it and it shoots well. It doesn't look great but my wood working skills are minimal. (Believe me, I am being generous.)

I hope you pursue this. A father/son project like this would be great fun.

Jeff
 
Aamntman has good advice. You can probably get a Traditions kit in the $300-$400 range new. There are several to choose from. On the higher end of a fairly easy to complete rifle is the Kibler. You are looking at around $1200-1300 for his kits. They are extremely well done with high quality parts and not much more work than the cheaper kits, but can be done to a very high level by a skilled craftsman.
 
Another plus for the Traditions Deer hunter is it comes in several calibers and occasionally one can find an extra barrel so you have several calibers in one gun. I have one in .32 but .50s are available too.
 
OK, I looked at gunbro_ker and there are several you may be interested in. The more ya spend the better the kit as a rule??? Couple KY kits as well as various Hawkins. Also a Lyman in there. Getcha one and lets see some progress photos!

PS browning with Plum Brown is simple (need a good size gas grille is all!) Looks way better than blue to me
 
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My vote is for the Traditions Deerhunter kit. I've done 3 of them over the years. Fairly simple to assemble. Blueing the barrel is really simple too. There's a couple of different kinds of blueing kits out there. Not expensive either.
 
The track of the wolf north west gun is very good. Originals had an inlet side plate but many put these on flat. It’s a flint lock, but the big lock is less finicky then smaller locks. The flat butt plate is easy to fit. The moldings around the lock are all ready cut in. There is no entry pipe for the ramrod and no nose cap. The trigger guard lays on the wood and the tang bolt is purposely left exposed from the bottom. The trigger is on a pin in the wood so there is no trigger plate to inlet. The guns are light, and neat looking. The originals asr on walnut but the kit is plain maple and pretty easy to work. A red brown walnut stain looks good on them. About the most forgiving gun you can get, and with a 30” barrel easy to use for a kid but still handy for an adult.
 
I think Moonman hit the cruxt of the matter and Zonie laid it out. If you are in the 1k range. Kibler. Period. For a first gun, but it's flintlock. If that's a bit much, I'd say the Lyman Great Plains. Everything else will go bang and look historical to the guy just getting started. Go where you're budget allows and get ready to be hooked for life and to have your son think you're a real old timer. "Why, my old Pop shot black powder guns when I was a kid....." Priceless.
 
If you want a ML that is fairly historically correct, very light, very accurate, one of the best is a kit from Jim Kimber. You would need a small sharp chisel, sand paper, and your finish, He makes great kits, with CNC'd locks. He has Rice barrels currently, will be switching to his own in about 3 months. Great personalized service also.
 
If you can afford the Jim Kibler kit, that would be the way to go for a first build. I believe that you can talk to Jim and get the kit in percussion. The percussion kit is not advertised and Jim's excellent CNC flintlock will be replaced by an excellent flintlock.
 
FOR A 12 YEAR OLD, the Traditions Crockett 32 comes in a kit and the recoil is great for a 12 year old boy.

Also, the Traditions Kentucky in 50 caliber works well, is light for a young man, and can shoot light loads. Both rifles are accurate but my nod goes to the Crockett as there is no recoil. To brown a barrel, Birchwood Casey and a heat gun work well. Use caution with heat around the hammer area. Remember that boys grow, butt stocks don't. A little long now will fit later.

The T/C's and Lyman's are great rifles and will last forever. I think that 8+ pounds might be too heavy.

Please read the safety part of the manual if you are new to muzzle loading. There are various safety rules that are different from a modern rifle. Best of luck with your endeavor.
 
X2 on having a leaving the stock a little long. It is amazing how much a twelve year old can grow in a year. What seems unwieldy at twelve probably will be fine at 13. Of course much depends on how big other family members are and how fast they grow. Only you know what will likely happen and if there are other kids coming along who might use a short gun.
 
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