Red Flecks in powder residue

[roundball]

Some statements have been made regarding the red flecks occasionally seen in black powder residue that beg a different viewpoint.

My experience with red flecks on powder have never had anything to do with pressure...or patch/ball combinations...or size of the powder charge.

I use Goex 4F prime and Goex 3F main...different caliber rifles and smoothbores, target and hunting size powder charges, PRBs and shot loads;

The red flecks have predictably and routinely appeared during periods of low humidity / dry air...has happened every year duing the cold low humidity / dry air months of winter here in NC for the past 10 years I've been shooting Flintlocks year round;

They appear regardless of various size powder charges;

They have appeared on the muzzle;

They have appeared in the pan;

They have appeared on cleaning patches;


They have never appeared anywhere during periods of the year with normal to high humidity in the air...using all the exact same muzzleloaders, powder charges, loads, projectiles, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

O-K, thanks for the correction :thumbsup: .

That Scout Shoot I wrote about was on a very cold April day with lower humidity, so everything you said falls into place :applause: :haha: .

Thanks again!

Dave

 

[roundball]

Sounds like it...and for the record, nothing I posted was speculation or arm chair theory...it was all factual results from actual hands-on experience...not anything I read somewhere that I then repeated as if it were gospel...some do that, I don't...what I posted have indeed been the facts for me, 10 years running. :wink:

 

[MikeChapin]

...

They have never appeared anywhere during periods of the year with normal to high humidity in the air...using all the exact same muzzleloaders, powder charges, loads, projectiles, etc, etc, etc.

That has been pretty much my experience. I only see it here in the dry summer months.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Since I've been around this forum, I can't remember a single time where your facts weren't backed-up with practical, first-hand knowledge.

I too strive to be accurate as well as complete if I'm posting with advice, etc.

Thanks again :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[roundball]

And one of the interesting aspects of its appearance being tied to low humidity / dry air is this:

Does the dry air "cause" the strange red flecks;
OR
Does the dry air simply "allow" them to become visible;

Personally I suspect that whatever chemical oddity that creates the few odd red flecks in BP combustion residue creates it year round...but during periods of normal to high moisture content in the air, the residue absorbs so much water that the flecks never get a chance to become visibly at the 'red' stage, turning soft and/or soupy instead, depending on the amount of available moisture.

The reason I say that is because when its real dry, you see the red flecks everywhere there's powder residue exposed to the air...even around the touch hole of a vent/vent liner where moist air is normally drawn in...but if there is little to no moisture in the air, some flecks of residue turn a red color... :hmm:

 

[tg]

I do not know why but know what the red stuff is it is the result of burnt sulphur, can't say why the inconsistant appearance,I used to make lots of red stuff when gassing Gophers with Sulphur and a Propane torch

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Makes sense!

Along those lines, have you ever noticed less "soupiness" to the fouling in dryer weather? Some of my friends don't clean their rifles the way that they should, and they seem to get away with it more in the winter than in the summer when the humidity is higher. In the summer the guns fail to fire and after a good cleaning, they're fine. In the winter, they lazy shooters seem to not have as many problems...could there be a correlation?

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I got a couple of cans of Swiss powder to use in my Ferguson last year. My idea was the higher octain of the Swiss would raise the power of the breechloader. First off the hotter powder blew the tallow out of the breech threads making the rifle foul out after 12 rounds where using Schuetzen or Goex we have got well over 50 rounds
with the same formula breech lube. Besides that
the Swiss powder made the worst hard caked bright red fouling in the breech area! I guess it was Breech which is not an air tight seal. I seen the little red dots over the years but not lately.

 

[roundball]

"...have you ever noticed less "soupiness" to the fouling in dryer weather?..."

That's been my experience...in the high humidity months here, after I take a shot and stand the rifle down to reload it, then less than a minute later when I bring the Flintlock up to reprime it, the pan is already glistening wet soup...not so in the low humidity months

 

[paulvallandigham]

Higher humidity actually helps Black Powder burn Hotter- think STEAM-- And that is why you stop seeing red flecks when shooting in humid, hot weather. The problem with the Sharps Model 59 style breech loading carbines, is that "cut-off" plate simply does not provide a sufficient seal to gas leaks from the back of the powder chamber. using low pressure loads, it not too much of a problem. However, use the subs, or a hotter burning BP, and you get CAKE! I helped a friend to scrape the Cake off his plate one afternoon at the range, by sharing my sharp pocket knife with him. We got the gun firing again, but his experience was much as you have described happened when you shot Swiss powder in your gun.

 

[Dphar]

Some statements have been made regarding the red flecks occasionally seen in black powder residue that beg a different viewpoint.

My experience with red flecks on powder have never had anything to do with pressure...or patch/ball combinations...or size of the powder charge.

I use Goex 4F prime and Goex 3F main...different caliber rifles and smoothbores, target and hunting size powder charges, PRBs and shot loads;

The red flecks have predictably and routinely appeared during periods of low humidity / dry air...has happened every year duing the cold low humidity / dry air months of winter here in NC for the past 10 years I've been shooting Flintlocks year round;

They appear regardless of various size powder charges;

They have appeared on the muzzle;

They have appeared in the pan;

They have appeared on cleaning patches;


They have never appeared anywhere during periods of the year with normal to high humidity in the air...using all the exact same muzzleloaders, powder charges, loads, projectiles, etc, etc, etc.

If I remember correctly they are partially reacted sulfur Usually appears as round beads. Sometimes you get yellow or orange colored fouling alternatively or in conjunction with the red beads.


Dan

 

[Dphar]

I got a couple of cans of Swiss powder to use in my Ferguson last year. My idea was the higher octain of the Swiss would raise the power of the breechloader. First off the hotter powder blew the tallow out of the breech threads making the rifle foul out after 12 rounds where using Schuetzen or Goex we have got well over 50 rounds
with the same formula breech lube. Besides that
the Swiss powder made the worst hard caked bright red fouling in the breech area! I guess it was Breech which is not an air tight seal. I seen the little red dots over the years but not lately.

58 caliber RB rifles go critical at about 100 grains of FF or FFF swiss lost of weird fouling problems. Has to do with the burn rate and the temperature developed. Drop the powder charge to 90-100 from 110 and the problem vanishes.
Can't speak to the breech loader.
If you shoot Swiss you need to drop the charge about 10-15 grains compared to Goex. The velocity will still be about the same.

Dan

 

[Emet Huntsman]

Down here on the Coastal Plain we have a reenactment group that meets monthly. With the high humidity, SUmmer or Winter, the gunk buildup actually becomes a paste inteh pan, barrell and on teh flint and frizzen!
Has to be the water in the air :rotf:

 

[roundball]

Down here on the Coastal Plain we have a reenactment group that meets monthly. With the high humidity, SUmmer or Winter, the gunk buildup actually becomes a paste inteh pan, barrell and on teh flint and frizzen!
Has to be the water in the air :rotf:

I don't imagine you see 'red flecks' very often...and that wet salty buildup becomes stingingly obvious when you nick a finger on a sharp flint too !!

 

[mainiac]

Funny this is brought up.....

I was shooting my boys mini-leman .45 the other day,trying to find a real good load for it.
When i was shooting real low charges,30-35 grs,i had real bad black heavy fouling.Once i got up above 50 grs,the fouling was so much less that it was amazing. Higher pressure makes this fff schueutzen burn cleaner.Anyways,,after about 50-55 gr loads were tried,i started to get the red dots in the muzzle,same day same conditions,,so i am kinda thinking pressure has something to do with it.
BTW,,this being winter time in maine,,,the day was pretty dry and sunny,,,, :thumbsup: