Relaxing your springs.

[19 16 6]

When I put my rifles & shotguns away I un cock the firing pins & hammers so that the springs are relaxed. Or as much as they can be seeing as how a degree of tension retains them in the works.
Now, with my flintlock, some spring is always loaded to half cock or full pressure on an open frizzen spring if I let the cock down.
What do you blokes like to do with this situation ?
O.

 

[jamesthomas]

I just flip the frizzen open and let the cock all the way down and then rest the frizzen on top of the cock when not shooting my rifles if I don't plan on shooting them for a while I'll remove the flint from them also.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Interesting question. I have 'heard' both ways. #1 keeping a spring compressed will weaken it.
#2 keeping a spring compressed does no harm. :hmm:
Really. I dunno :idunno:
I do know, on most of my firearms, ml and modern the springs are often compressed for years with no ill effect. But, I'm usually wrong. Just ask my wife. :surrender:

 

[Birddog6]

IMHO, I feel anything stressed will eventually fail. And I have seen some 300 yr
old rifles that would not fire & required new springs.... Thus I should worry about
mine when I am about 300 :hmm: :idunno:

Seriously, stressing a spring is one thing. But light pressure is another. I don't
think a open frizzen will damage it because you are at the min. pressure, and I feel a
lock in the fired position will not damage it, as most of the stress is off the mainspring.

Keith Lisle

 

[Tom Compton]

Seriously, stressing a spring is one thing. But light pressure is another. I don't
think a open frizzen will damage it because you are at the min. pressure, and I feel a
lock in the fired position will not damage it, as most of the stress is off the mainspring.

Keith Lisle

Ditto Keith.

 

[19 16 6]

Thank you all.
Keith you are onto it I believe.
Looking at the lock again I do see now that frizzen up & cock down is as good as we are going to get it.
O.

 

[bender20]

Had this discussion with a buddy of mine who is an engineer. We were talking about firing pins on modern firearms but what he told me still applies for all springs. He told me that springs only wear out from constant pressure and release. Springs do not wear when they are kept in a compressed state or a released state they only wear when they are continually compressed and released.

 

[19 16 6]

Ah ha! that makes sense. Work cycles, cycling anything is what wears & fatigues it.
Thanks
O.

 

[Zonie]

Had this discussion with a buddy of mine who is an engineer.... He told me that springs only wear out from constant pressure and release. Springs do not wear when they are kept in a compressed state or a released state they only wear when they are continually compressed and released.

For general talking about gun parts, I agree with this.

It isn't entirely true if the spring is under load in a compressed or bent condition because a phenomenon called "creep" occurs on most materials under stress.

The "Free Dictionary" by Farlex says,
Creep of materials is "the slow, continuous plastic deformation of a solid under the action of a constant load or mechanical stress...
It was noted several centuries ago..."
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Creep+of+Materials

For the most part, the effects of creep is unnoticeable unless the steel is heated to temperatures close to the steels melting point or, the stress is maintained for very long periods of time.

That explains why leaving a gun cocked or uncocked has little effect on its springs but over a hundred plus years of being stressed, a definite weakening of the mainspring or frizzen spring might be observed.

Like I say, at room temperature it isn't a big deal.

In the world of jet engines, creep is a very real condition that must be considered for the high speed, high temperature parts like turbine rotor disks and blades.

 

[valen]

There are numerous studies conducted by the military and police departments on the effects of storing loaded magazines for long periods of time. Storing the springs compressed has no effect on their longevity. Only cycling the springs does that. So I generally store my flintlocks at half-cock with the frizzen pan shut to keep the pan clean.

 

[Artificer]

There are numerous studies conducted by the military and police departments on the effects of storing loaded magazines for long periods of time. Storing the springs compressed has no effect on their longevity. Only cycling the springs does that. So I generally store my flintlocks at half-cock with the frizzen pan shut to keep the pan clean.

Though I agree that magazines stored loaded shows little effect of spring compression or harm, the truth is that the magazines are not stored that way for more than many months or a couple of years at most. This because you need to unload the magazines every so often to clean/preserve the magazines, or you empty the magazines during annual qualification, practice shooting, or etc., etc.

True long term storage of springs in magazines or arms, meaning at least 5 - 10 or more years of storage, results in spring compression - though the amount of spring compression varies by what type of spring it is, how much it was compressed and how long it was compressed.

As a Career Small Arms Ordnance Marine, we had to inspect small arms that had been stored as new or rebuilt to new condition from Arsenals - before they were issued to the Troops. This partly because there is compression of even brand new springs when stored for 5 to 10 years or more.

I agree with others that for flintlocks, the best way to store them is with the cock down and the frizzen forward.

Gus

 

[fishmusic]

Ditto that which shotgunner87 said! Cycling will eventually cause metal fatigue. A well designed spring should last over 1 million cycles provided it is used within its design limits.

 

[Rifleman1776]

It was noted several centuries ago..."

At best, that is only interesting. It is not of value today. Technology to study such things does not compare to what we have today and those observations were on steel vastly inferior to anything we have currently.

 

[longcruise]

I have two 1911 magazines that we're fully loaded from 1946 until 1985. No Ill effect's noted.

I didn't understand the topic initially and only joined in to say that I send my springs to Cabo for a week every winter. They always come back relaxed.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You guys are comparing apples to oranges, yes they are both fruit...but...

The magazine springs are a form of modified coil, which have been shown to be reliable after decades of compression, and why they are often preferred.

The springs in flintlocks, caplocks, (and in some modern SxS shotguns) are leaf springs, and YES they can become weak after compression for long periods of time. It is not recommended, for example that one leave SxS shotguns cocked, and one uses "snap caps" to relieve the pressure on the hammer springs on guns with concealed hammers.

Further, let us not assume that all leaf springs are made in an identical manner from identical steel. I have seen factory made Pedersoli Bess main springs arrive in the mail, already cracked. Plus there are the Indian guns, which undoubtedly are not the same steel as used in America or Italy. Finally, a ham fisted, home jobber, can ruin the temper on a spring by improperly reducing the strength through grinding, and etc.

Leaving the hammer or cock on a leaf spring lock in a "down" position, will undoubtedly aid in prolonging the spring's life. Other procedures might not have a negative effect, or might...

LD

 

[Grizzly Adams]

The springs on an automobile will eventually sag, and they are subject not only to a small amount of constant pressure, but vigorous cycling over a long period of time.

I would not be surprised if my 20 year old truck was an inch lower than when it rolled off the line.

 

[kaintuck]

I had a 1888 trapdoor springfield rifle with all original springs......I think 127yr old springs are good...I wouldn't worry~ :shake:
open the frizzen, let down the hammer....tomtom said it's fine....and he's a smart kat!

marc

 

[19 16 6]

This relaxed spring thing is something that I was taught early in my shooting life as were many others I suspect. Snap caps are a living proof of that suspicion.
I too have a 125 year old gun, a British double 12 G. hammer gun. Its springs seem to be all original & still very strong. I would say that it was always put up with hammers down as good practice, as would your Trapdoor have been.
O.

 

[frogwalking]

A while back, I bought a fine quality double shotgun that I could ill afford. It came in a custom case with snap caps to lower the hammers safely when assembled, and a horn block to hold against the firing pins to snap it for storage in the case, disassembled. These things have flat springs like our muzzleloaders. Makers of the fine old English doubles apparently thought the springs should be relaxed when stored. I don't know if they are right, but I follow their lead.