Remington 1816 Flintlock?

[John V.]

I have the opportunity to buy a NIB Remington 1816 flintlock. These were produced around 1995 for Remington (by ?) as a special edition Remington anniversary type of M/L. The guy is asking north of $1000.00 for it. Is this a good price for one? I plan on shooting it, it will not be a safe queen. However it will not be competition either, just leisurely shooting. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

They look curiously like a Pedersoli frontier, deluxe, with cosmetic differences. The patch box, the pinned barrel with the pin locations having inlays for reinforcement, and different thimbles. I have seen a website that swears they were all custom made in the Remington custom shop in 1995 (so why go with the 39" straight barrel the same as the Italians, instead of a 42" ?) I think they might have been ordered with Italian parts and finished by Remington, but that's just me....

The Italian deluxe rifles go for $1600.00 new, and if it is a reworked Italian, it has better cosmetic choices than the OTC deluxe Frontier. SO IF you like it and you don't mind the price then you should be happy with it.

IF you just wanted something for leisure shooting without the "ooooh aaaaah" factor, then a plain Pedersoli Frontier would do quite well, and save you some $$'s.

LD

 

[varsity07840]

Remington farmed them out to Hatfield. The rifles were way over priced from the get go. They have fake barrel pins and escutcheons and fasten the barrel to the stock through the thimbles as per the Hatfield. The one I had, briefly, had poor wood to metal fit. I didn't know that they were a Hatfield product until I took it out of the box. I was able to break even on it when I sold it through TOW.

 

[RonRC]

Remington farmed them out to Hatfield. The rifles were way over priced from the get go. They have fake barrel pins and escutcheons and fasten the barrel to the stock through the thimbles as per the Hatfield. The one I had, briefly, had poor wood to metal fit. I didn't know that they were a Hatfield product until I took it out of the box. I was able to break even on it when I sold it through TOW.

Duane is correct in all that he said. The barrel pins in the escutcheons are just decorative. The ramrod thimbles have a hole in them that gives access to screws that hold the barrel.
However, the wood in mine is very nice and the inletting is very good.
There are two grooves that run alongside the ramrod, a feature identical to the Hatfield rifles. Yet, the promotional materials claim that the rifles were fabricated in house, by Remington.
I have a Hatfield and the similarities between the Remington and Hatfield are too great to ignore.
Ron

 

[John V.]

Remington farmed them out to Hatfield. The rifles were way over priced from the get go. They have fake barrel pins and escutcheons and fasten the barrel to the stock through the thimbles as per the Hatfield. The one I had, briefly, had poor wood to metal fit. I didn't know that they were a Hatfield product until I took it out of the box. I was able to break even on it when I sold it through TOW.

Duane is correct in all that he said. The barrel pins in the escutcheons are just decorative. The ramrod thimbles have a hole in them that gives access to screws that hold the barrel.
However, the wood in mine is very nice and the inletting is very good.
There are two grooves that run alongside the ramrod, a feature identical to the Hatfield rifles. Yet, the promotional materials claim that the rifles were fabricated in house, by Remington.
I have a Hatfield and the similarities between the Remington and Hatfield are too great to ignore.
Ron

So I glean that you still own a Remington 1816? Have you ever shot it? Does it balance well when pulled to ones shoulder, or is it front heavy? Is it easy to line up the sights? I currently have a Traditions Pennsylvania L/R in percussion cap and said rifle being a bit front heavy when pulled up is one factor I wish I could change. Also is the 1816 what they call a "Roman nose" with regard to the stocks curve? Thanks.

 

[smo]

Remington farmed them out to Hatfield. The rifles were way over priced from the get go. They have fake barrel pins and escutcheons and fasten the barrel to the stock through the thimbles as per the Hatfield. The one I had, briefly, had poor wood to metal fit. I didn't know that they were a Hatfield product until I took it out of the box. I was able to break even on it when I sold it through TOW.

Duane is correct in all that he said. The barrel pins in the escutcheons are just decorative. The ramrod thimbles have a hole in them that gives access to screws that hold the barrel.
However, the wood in mine is very nice and the inletting is very good.
There are two grooves that run alongside the ramrod, a feature identical to the Hatfield rifles. Yet, the promotional materials claim that the rifles were fabricated in house, by Remington.
I have a Hatfield and the similarities between the Remington and Hatfield are too great to ignore.
Ron

So I glean that you still own a Remington 1816? Have you ever shot it? Does it balance well when pulled to ones shoulder, or is it front heavy? Is it easy to line up the sights? I currently have a Traditions Pennsylvania L/R in percussion cap and said rifle being a bit front heavy when pulled up is one factor I wish I could change. Also is the 1816 what they call a "Roman nose" with regard to the stocks curve? Thanks.

Add a little lead to the stock to help the balance... :slap: :thumbsup: :v

 

[ol vern]

short answer no, maybe $500.00 to $700.00 depending on
how bad you want it.

 

[RonRC]

Bravo 4-4, I haven't shot it and I don't think it was shot very much before I bought it.

It is a little front heavy, but not more so than some of my other muzzleloaders.

It does have that "Roman nose" curvature just like the Hatfield.

I should add that is has a nicely engraved patch box.

I would find a price of $800 to be very acceptable. At $1000, I would consider it but would have to think hard about it. At $1200 - well, there are many used flintlocks offered at that price that are quite nice.

Ron

 

[RonRC]

The Remington 1816:

Hatfield:

Ron

 

[hanshi]

The rifle doesn't look much like a Hatfield to me.

 

[Col. Batguano]

What is the shape of the wrist? In the picture it looks like it's sort of diamond shaped.

Is there any kind of a PB release button or mechanism on this gun? It sort of looks like there's just a divot filed so you can get your finger under the lid to lift it up.

The comb looks straight to me, more like a Lancaster, Bucks, or most of the other schools other than Berks, or Bethlehem.

I saw another (flint) 1816 Remington factory gun on GB. That one looked like there was a larger or more extended flat area aft of the breech, and only started bending down to transition to the wrist much later. It was sort of goofy looking to me.

 

[John V.]

What is the shape of the wrist? In the picture it looks like it's sort of diamond shaped.

Is there any kind of a PB release button or mechanism on this gun? It sort of looks like there's just a divot filed so you can get your finger under the lid to lift it up.

The comb looks straight to me, more like a Lancaster, Bucks, or most of the other schools other than Berks, or Bethlehem.

I saw another (flint) 1816 Remington factory gun on GB. That one looked like there was a larger or more extended flat area aft of the breech, and only started bending down to transition to the wrist much later. It was sort of goofy looking to me.

The research I have done on these Remington's indicates they were styled after the Lancaster style? They really are very beautiful rifles none the less regardless of who actually made them. If these were farmed out to Hatfield by Remington...would that be bad? Is Hatfield a bad/cheap rifle? I truly do not know?

 

[John V.]

The Remington 1816:

Hatfield:

Ron

RonRc, I glean these are your muzzleloaders?

 

[varsity07840]

I think that if you google the subject at hand, you will see that they were Hatfields.

 

[varsity07840]

The list price way back when the rifle was introduced was in excess of $1,200.00 perhaps more. Why would you have spent that kind of money on a rifle with fake features? Remington's ads for the rifle made no mention that the rifle was not made in house. I myself was taken and paid a very high price for mine, in unfired condition. I was good with it until I took it out of the box and immediately recognized that it was a fancy Hatfield.

 

[Gene L]

I looked up the rifle and found a very negative report on it from an Australian owner. The sear was faulty, and he eventually replaced it and eventually the lock. Then the nosecap fell off. He discovered the fake pins and the round-headed screws in the patch box, and he eventually replaced the stock and furniture. Eventually, he had replaced everything on the gun except the barrel. It took him about two or three years, IIRC.

 

[Captjoel]

The butt plates sharp curve and outswing at the toe of the 1816 is more closely related to late southern style rifles.

I have run across quite a few of these over the years and most were in their original boxes and never shot.

Priced high for the collector market, many were in the range closer to 2 thousand.

Was told by a seller that this special commemorative was not meant to be shot and should increase in value over time.

That was over 10 years ago and today I see them selling much less than they cost new.

 

[RonRC]

Yes, these are both rifles in my possession.

As I look at the Remington, I realized that I was wrong about the Roman nose shape. The Hatfield does have that Roman nose curvature and the Remington does not.

I saw that Australian owner thread concerning all the flaws in the Remington he received. My particular rifle has none of those issues.

The Remington, in my opinion, would have been much nicer if its barrel was longer like others of that time period.

There is some question about whether Mr. Remington ever built whole rifles in that 1816 period. Some say that he only made barrels at that time and that the rifle is just a modern figment of someone's active imagination.

The early Hatfield rifles were quite nice. Later, the company underwent changes and the barrels were imported from Italy of Pedersoli manufacture. The Hatfield company filed off the "Made in Italy" and Pedersoli name before making it part of the rifle. The Pedersoli barrel is not necessarily bad, but it does negate any claim that the rifle was American made during the last phase of the Hatfield company's existence.

Ron

 

[John V.]

Yes, these are both rifles in my possession.

As I look at the Remington, I realized that I was wrong about the Roman nose shape. The Hatfield does have that Roman nose curvature and the Remington does not.

I saw that Australian owner thread concerning all the flaws in the Remington he received. My particular rifle has none of those issues.

The Remington, in my opinion, would have been much nicer if its barrel was longer like others of that time period.

There is some question about whether Mr. Remington ever built whole rifles in that 1816 period. Some say that he only made barrels at that time and that the rifle is just a modern figment of someone's active imagination.

The early Hatfield rifles were quite nice. Later, the company underwent changes and the barrels were imported from Italy of Pedersoli manufacture. The Hatfield company filed off the "Made in Italy" and Pedersoli name before making it part of the rifle. The Pedersoli barrel is not necessarily bad, but it does negate any claim that the rifle was American made during the last phase of the Hatfield company's existence.

Ron

I realize I am resurrecting my old post/thread.But I have run across another Remington 1816 NIB.At a really good price. I went back and re-read this thread looking to see if anyone has ever shot their 1816? May I ask, have you shot your Remy 1816? Has anyone here shot one?All the collect-ability crap aside. Can they be shot?I am just enamored by these rifles. Appreciate any in-put. Thanks.

 

[Pete44ru]

I realize I am resurrecting my old post/thread.

But I have run across another Remington 1816 NIB.
At a really good price.
I went back and re-read this thread looking to see if anyone has ever shot their 1816?
May I ask, have you shot your Remy 1816?
Has anyone here shot one?
All the collect-ability crap aside.
Can they be shot?
I am just enamored by these rifles.

Appreciate any in-put. Thanks.

If the price is that good, I suggest that you follow your heart, buy it, and shoot it.

If it doesn't live up to your expectations, you can most likely get your money back out of it.