Remington 1858 Questions/Help

[Biker]

Hi guys,
Looking to get some input from the experienced pool here.
I just picked up a 58 Remington remake with the steel not brass frame.
In terms of loading these I'm hearing a lot of different "techniques" if you will.
1. Loading measured powder/wool wad/ball/grease.
2. Loading powder/ball/grease.
3. Load powder/ball/candlewax drips over ball to seal (small amount).
4. Rolling paper setup.
Are anyone of these techniques a lot better than the other?
I like to idea of powder/ball/seal with some candlewax. Do I really need to use a wad in between the powder/ball?
Also what grain is a good start for me to begin my load workup for this?
Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate any other pointers you have for a new blackpowder guy.
:winking:

 

[Smokin6Gun]

Put this one in your pool and use it and you'll swim(shoot) all day without hard fouling binding you up. "Lube Pill" between the powder and the ball.
What I did was start out with:
Parafin comes in a brick divided to to 4 like a stick a butter, I used a stick.
Then 1/4 of a Toilet Seal Ring Bolwax or(Beeswax)substitute with beeswax or use just the parafin.
Then 8-10 Tablespoon of Olive Oil
The Olive oil is the Lube as Wayne told me the Waxes just carry it and keep the pill as you want it.
And that made alot about 600 pills...about 1/8" thick for the most part, LoL!...a good level stiff heated pizza pan is the best thing to pour your mix into...so mix cools evenly . Or use a straight walled cake pan.

And worked good for me...you need to try your best guess and add/subract as you like them for your use.

 

[Biker]

I've been considering also using Bore Butter over the lead ball but do I really need to put a wad in there? Can I shoot without one and what effect will it have? Bad accuracy?

 

[the priest]

Biker,

Per Sam Colt a properly loaded revolver(with cap powder and ball) should never chain fire. Yet, much of what people use lube (either grease over the ball or wad under) is to avoid a chainfire. I personally believe it's from the wrong sized caps. Back in the BP heyday caps sizes ran from 9-12, today 10s are tough to find. The lube also helps to keep fouling soft and the barrel clean, thus allowing you to shoot longer and more accurately.

Each method of lube has it's positives and negatives; with the grease over the ball you can load more powder as the card or felt wads take up space otherwise used for powder,...but this method is MESSY. Using felt wads a person has less mess but less powder capacity as mentioned before. Some people also believe(as do I) that a good stiff felt wad will also serve to keep the barrel cleaner as it scrapes it's way down the bore removing fouling as it goes. The choice is yours.

As far as a load to start, try 25 grains first in your Remington and go from there. Along the way keep two things in mind, first, blackpowder(and most substitutes) need to be compressed to fire consistently. Second, if you're going to use very light loads,.....use a filler like cornmeal OVER the powder(don't mix). If you have too much space in your chamber the rammer won't be able to push the ball far enough to compress the powder charge. hence the need for a filler. (you shouldn't need filler for 25grns)

When loading, things are pretty simple. Snap a few caps on your empty chambers to remove any extra lube/grease. Load out of your main powder container to a measure(to keep things a little more safe), transfer into a chamber, add a ball, seat it with the rammer, cover with lube. If you're using felt wads they would go between the powder and ball. Pretty simple just go slow. Once all chambers have been loaded put on your caps and go to town.

P.S. The candlewax thing might be great if you're really concerned with rain or going swimming otherwise it's probably overkill :v

 

[renovato]

There are many loading methods that work. Using a wad under the ball often helps accuracy by protecting the ball from burning powder gasses. It also helps wipe fouling as you shoot, letting you shoot more before you need to clean.

The most important thing is that the ball is slightly oversized to the chambers, so when you load it, you get a thin ring of lead shaving off. That's for accuracy and to seal out gasses to prevent a chainfire from the front. Make sure your caps fit the nipples tightly, to prevent a chainfire from the rear.

As for loads, start in the 20-25 grain range and work up. The most accurate load usually ends up being in the 25-35 grain range.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Priest is absolutely correct. Very few chain-fires are caused by blow-by at the caps rather than flash at the cylinder face. Well fitted caps are essential for fast ignition and helping to prevent chain-fire. I started out using Crisco over the balls to help keep bore fouling softened, which it is meant for rather than chain-fire protection. Have used other products but any good grease will due. Some of the cup greases available at auto parts stores work well. Never tought it necessary to use wads but have used corn meal for a filler if I use small powder charges. Good luck.

 

[faw3]

All these read real good , and ive tryed them all at one time or another. My self i use wonder wads over the powder if I load lite (not offten)and you can forget the filler,and I havent tryed Toilet Seal Ring Bolwax but it sounds like a good idea. Most kinds of grease are going to make one big mess by the 3er cyl full yove shot (just from heat if you use a lite type, in 25 yrs of shooting these Ive only sen one set off 1/2 a cyl while I was shooting next to him,he was new and trying to show off for his young kid and really overloaded it,and I dont remember if it was a cheep one or not but it blew a hunk of cyl out , Idid learn to watch whats going on next to me. You'll try some and find the best that works for you and your 58. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Lone Carabiner]

I have found that an over powder felt pad makes for tighter groups. I use slugs cast from Lee mould but you can buy them already made, have heard good reports of 'Buffalo Ball-ets' but never tryed them.
When loading the cylinder I insert the felt pad atop the powder charge and place a small dollop of GO-JO atop then the slug and press into place. When I load after a good cleaning and it's gonna be awhile before I shoot I use 'Natural Lube 1000' over the slug also.

 

[marmot]

Howdy Biker -
All off these suggestions are really good, but not being able to leave well enough alone I'll add my bit: I ususally shoot light target loads for N-SSA, so I use the cornmeal filler to keep the ball out at the end of the cylinder - this helps the accuracy in my particular gun. I also use grease on top of the load; very little, since the ball is just flush with the end of the cylinder, so it actually forms a ring with the end of the ball visable. I don't use Crisco, as the heat and pressure from the first shot melts/blows it out of the rest of the cylinders, at least in my experience... but it is cheap, readily available and the residue does help some for lubrication; instead I prefer something heavier (I use beeswax/olive oil/tallow). I agree with some of the other writers that most chainfires come from the nipple side, so in my loading the grease is for lubrication/softening - you don't need a lot! (plus the cornmeal or wad adds an extra layer of security on the front end against chainfires from that side) I also like to remove the cylinder before shooting and grease the pin with something heavy to keep the fouling from working back in there and gumming up the cylinder.

As for premeasured loads, 7.62x39 or 30-30 (or 8mm or whatever is handy!) brass cases with corks work very well to hold revolver sized charges, and the necked cartridges make a built-in funnel to get the powder into the cylinder.

Lots of options with a BP revolver - try them all out and see what works for you and your gun. Oh, and yeah, have fun doing it!

marmot

 

[renovato]

Howdy Biker -

As for premeasured loads, 7.62x39 or 30-30 (or 8mm or whatever is handy!) brass cases with corks work very well to hold revolver sized charges, and the necked cartridges make a built-in funnel to get the powder into the cylinder.

marmot

What a great idea! I usually leave behind a big pile of steel cased 7.62x39 empties. I think I'm gonna bring some home next time. Now to find corks.

 

[arcticap]

Someone mentioned that they only grease 2 chambers out of every cylinder (like #1 & #4), just enough to keep the fouling soft and to be able to shoot continuously for long stretches without creating much fouling or an excessively greasy mess. :hatsoff:

 

[Lone Carabiner]

One thread in the pistols section had an inquiry about possibility of steel 7.62x39 cases 'sparking' and setting off the charges, might use a brass one to be safe. That's what I use to charge my '58. :hmm:

 

[renovato]

Yeah, that's a good idea alright. I have plenty of brass cases too.

The cheap ******* in me just hates anything going to waste, and I have yet to find a use for the empty steel cases.

 

[Lone Carabiner]

Could ja' sell 'em to the uninitiated for a profit? Hopefully their powder will be to damp to ignite from a slight spark? :bull: