Remington Caps

[doc623]

Anyone else having trouble with the "new" Remington #10 caps?
Misfires, fizzles, and etc. Approx 1-2 evey or every other cylinder full.
Contacted Remington - might as well went outside and whistled into the wind.

 

[jdixon]

Doc:
You certain you got the right size cap? what you are describing are the symptoms of caps that are slightly too small in depth, or too deep. Check your nipples with a caliper, digital is best, and then compare the nipple diameter to the I.D. of your caps. A few 1/1000's of an inch will make a difference. Short of that, switch to another brand even in the #10 size. You will find that there are variances in the sizes. This may be all you need. As for the Remington cap itself, I shoot them in my Ruger OA all fo the time and never have a problem with them.

 

[Tight_Wad]

Doc

I recently measured Remington and CCI caps, both #10 and #11 to see the differences. Basically, it seems Remington favour keeping the diameter the same for both sizes but make the #10 longer so it engages more tightly with the truncated cone shape of the nipple. CCI on the other hand, keep the length the same for both but make the #10 about .005" smaller in diameter. Two solutions to the same problem of varying nipple size.

I use Remington #12 on my Ruger Old Army and #10 on my Euroarms Rogers & Spencer and they go bang every time. Maybe you should try a box of #12's or switch brand and give CCI a try - they're not the same.

Hope you sort the problem,

Tight Wad

 

I've had that same problem but not to the degree you have experienced. I might get one bad cap per container. CCI's always go bang! but they don't always stay on the nipple while I am carrying in a holster so I quit using them.

 

[16gauge]

Anvil;
Pinch those CCIs so they are slightly out of round....they'll stay on the nipples after that! Been doing it for my 1858 Remington revolver, and haven't had a misfire yet, either to a bad cap or lost cap!

 

[Bear Rider]

I have used both Remingtons and CCIs on my Pietta '58. The CCIs will stay on, until they are shot, then they fall off and hang up the action. The Remingtons cause me less mechanical trouble.

Also, I use paper cartridges, and with the CCIs I have to prick the base of the cartridge to ensure reliable, fast ignition. With the Remingtons, I just ram it in, cap it, and shoot it. I have to believe that the Remingtons are a little hotter. :m2c:

Now, if I could just find a capper to handle the longer Remington caps.

 

[ValleyForge]

Our local outfitter just sells the CCI caps, and I use #11s with my Pietta/Cabelas Remington. The 10s don't seem to fit. But the 11s work great.

Interestingly, I get the same problem as you with my Uberty 1861 Colt: too many misfires with the same #11s -- yet the 10s won't go down far enough on the nipples to let the cylinder turn!

 

[mk434]

I have used both Remingtons and CCIs on my Pietta '58. The CCIs will stay on, until they are shot, then they fall off and hang up the action. The Remingtons cause me less mechanical trouble.

Also, I use paper cartridges, and with the CCIs I have to prick the base of the cartridge to ensure reliable, fast ignition. With the Remingtons, I just ram it in, cap it, and shoot it. I have to believe that the Remingtons are a little hotter. :m2c:

Now, if I could just find a capper to handle the longer Remington caps.

I never heard of people using paper cartidges in C&B revolvers. Do you have to put any type of chemical on the paper so it burns easier? And is it a special type of paper?

 

[mec]

I've had good luck with CCI and the newer hotter Remington caps they are making now. The ccis have thicker cups which doesnt seem to be an issue with single action revolvers with full power springs.

In the mid 19th century, colt and others began making envelop cartridges for loading the revolvers. They started out with foil and then develped self consuming paper cones glued to the base of the bullets, filled them with powder and then folded them over once or twice to seal then, usually dipped in wax. They came to be conveniently packed in boxes of six individually compartmented for each ctg. The cartridges held less pouder than was customary with loose loaded balls and most bullets. The foil cartridges needed to be opened with a nipple pick after loading and this was probably the right thing to do with the combustibles too.

Modern shooters either buy nitrated paper cartridge kits - dont remember where, use nitrated cigarette rolling papers or nitrate paper themselves. I made up a few with thin paper soaked in in a solution of the stump remover sold in wallyworld and garden centers. Look on the can and it will mention a high content of potassium nitrate. This tends to precipitate out in warm water and dry on the paper in the form of very small cristals. When I shot them, the only residue left was from the white glue I used to seal them and attach to the bullet.

Some modern shooters like them. I consider them to be a pain in the butt compared to using loose ball and powder.

 

[doc623]

Will check the nipples. Thanks.
Have been using these caps on ROA and they seemed to work well until the batches of "new".
Will check the nipples anyway.
Thanks again.

 

[Bear Rider]

Mk434,

There have been a number of threads here about making cartridges for revolvers. I load a .454 ball for a Peitta '58. Basically, what I did was to get a length of 1/2 inch diameter dowel, chuck it in a drill press, and sand a taper on one end, IIRC to about 1/4 inch diameter.

I use zigzag cigarette papers, cut in half perpendicular to the fold, and a glue stick to glue everything together. First, I made a few by trial and error, until if found a position on the taper that would allow the paper to slide over a ball, just to the equator. I then cut a groove on the dowel to mark the upper end of the paper.

I do my loads in batches while watching the boob tube. First, I make about fifty or so empty cones. Then I glue balls in the end. Finally, I fill the cones with 20 grains of FFFg, and glue the end closed using a fold like the bottom of a paper sack.

I have two other steps that are optional. I heat beeswax in a double boiler and dip the ball end of the cartridge in it, until it just covers the equator. This serves two purposes. It helps secure the ball in the cartridge, and it also provides a lube.

The other option is to cut a square of tinfoil, lay a cylinder's worth of cartridges in a row on the foil, and then wrap it neatly. This makes a surprisingly sturdy container. I just toss these in my shooting bag for field use.

 

[Zonie]

To help with ignition the original paper cartridges used nitrated paper.

All this is, is paper like the cigarette paper which has been soaked in a strong solution of water and Salt Peter. Then allowed to dry.

I had to really look for it, but Salt Peter was on the Drug Stores home remedies shelf.

 

[roundball454]

This is my first reply to anyone on a forum. (I just joined when I found the forum) I have had mis-fires with my .45 kentucky (a used cap gets wedged in the hammer Remmington,CCI,and some Germanbrand, 10's and 11's), pistol and rifle. For my 58 and colts if I don't fully seat the cap on the nipple then I will get a misfire. :cry:
however, the next hammer fall will usualy set off the cap!
hope this is helpful

 

[Zonie]

The problem you mention can be caused by several things.
The cap "fit" problem is as you surmised a leading candidate. Usually by using the #11 caps that should fix things with the smaller caliber pistols.
Most of the Italian/Spanish sidelock pistols I've seen are set up for the #11 caps. Some of the revolvers use #10 caps and some use #11. There doesn't seem to be any real rule to go by except trial and error.

If the #11 caps really don't fit the nipple, you could try to buy a replacement nipple from Dixie or TOTW.
Another option is to chuck the nipple in an electric drill and gently file the cone on the nipple while the drill is running. It doesn't take much to make a large difference so if you try this method, use the file a little, check the fit, file a little, check the fit method.
The cap should be snug on the nipple when it has "just" seated on the top of the cone.

As for your .58, I don't have a clue. I don't have a .58 caliber pistol and most of the .58 caliber Rifled Muskets are set up to use the large Musket Caps.

Other things that can cause the failure to fire your seening are weak mainsprings or insufficient lubrication of the tumbler where it goes thru the lockplate .

 

[roundball454]

" for my 58" I'm sorry I was refering to the Remmy '58 I forgot the ('). I have (the german brand? Dynamite nobel caps)Rem and CCI 10s and 11s and i will be experiminting with them to find the best fit/accuracy ect.