I keep shopping on the internet for a NM Remington revolver. None of the sites will supply any form of authentication. In fact they take it as an insult when I ask. I'm not comfortable spending $1500-2000 for gun that might be a forgery. I am no expert on these firearms. They only give you 3 days to inspect it. Not nearly enough time to send it off for authentication. Any one have any advise? Any one know of a site that supplies some documentation?
Remington NM Army
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Robert Egler
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Personally, I would not pay that kind of money unless I was sure what I was getting.
I wouldn't either.
Buying a "real" antique pistol like a Remington or Colt is risky even when dealing with the dealer face to face and holding the gun in your hand.
The dealer may actually think the gun is authentic even though it is not.
Even knowing the correct markings isn't enough because they can be and sometimes are forged.
Some things that are difficult to change like the rifling style, number of grooves and rate of twist can be useful but only if you know what the real guns should have.
There are just too many forgeries out there and it takes a hell of a lot of knowledge to know if a gun is real or fake.
Buying a "real" antique pistol like a Remington or Colt is risky even when dealing with the dealer face to face and holding the gun in your hand.
The dealer may actually think the gun is authentic even though it is not.
Even knowing the correct markings isn't enough because they can be and sometimes are forged.
Some things that are difficult to change like the rifling style, number of grooves and rate of twist can be useful but only if you know what the real guns should have.
There are just too many forgeries out there and it takes a hell of a lot of knowledge to know if a gun is real or fake.
I already have a Remmy and Colt repro. Just thought it would be nice to own the real thing. Can't believe the number of folks shelling out $1500-2000 for a gun with no authentication. These auction sites are selling guns they've never even actually seen! They just "take the word of the seller". I think these places are clearing houses for forgeries. With a little work you can make a $200 pistol into a $2000 one. Everybody thinks they found the "pristine" pistol.
Only as an option to toss into the discussion, you might like to take a look at what Dixie calls the New Model Army "Shooters" Revolver. This is basically the gun that Pietta puts all their time and effort into. We're talking an 'exact' copy of the original Remington 1858 down to dovetailed and correct front sight; progressive , 'cut' rifling; exact chamber and bore dimensions, available extra cylinders, silver plated trigger guard, etc. It appears Pietta pulled out all the stops on this one.
Now: Yes, it's Italian; Yes, it's probably marked that way; Yes, it's $750 plus shipping. But they have won two World Muzzleloading Championships with the silly things. It's not an original, granted, but it's cheaper, safer and doesn't drop in value every time it goes BOOM! Just a thought. :thumbsup:
Now: Yes, it's Italian; Yes, it's probably marked that way; Yes, it's $750 plus shipping. But they have won two World Muzzleloading Championships with the silly things. It's not an original, granted, but it's cheaper, safer and doesn't drop in value every time it goes BOOM! Just a thought. :thumbsup:
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"These auction sites are selling guns they've never even actually seen! They just "take the word of the seller"."
The auction sites do not sell the items, individuals sell their items on the auction site. Think of the site as the owner of a field running a flea market and renting space to sellers. The land owner or auction site is not responsible for the claims of the individual sellers. They don't just "take the word of the seller" as they are not involved in the sale beyond providing an internet space for someone to list their items. A responsible auction site might stop an auction where there is obvious misrepresentation of an object if it is brought to their attention or help resolve a dispute after the sale but ultimately it is up to the buyer to do his research before bidding.
The auction sites do not sell the items, individuals sell their items on the auction site. Think of the site as the owner of a field running a flea market and renting space to sellers. The land owner or auction site is not responsible for the claims of the individual sellers. They don't just "take the word of the seller" as they are not involved in the sale beyond providing an internet space for someone to list their items. A responsible auction site might stop an auction where there is obvious misrepresentation of an object if it is brought to their attention or help resolve a dispute after the sale but ultimately it is up to the buyer to do his research before bidding.
BGRooster1
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And like any auction that sells anything. Some buyers pay more for used items than you can purchase the same item from a retailer new.
When the auction site advertises a sellers gun as "civil war 1863 model XXX" in my opinion they are taking on the liability. The flea market does not market the goods for the people renting booths. Even Ebay dos not guarantee the accuracy of the sellers wares. These auction sites are taking "the word of the seller" and marketing the guns as such. They obviously are not worried about their reputation. I would expect an antique firearm auction house to have their own in house experts that would authenticate the gun before sale. If not, they just become clearing houses for forgeries.
I agree with you in the case of auction houses like James Julia being responsible for the listing but they are experts and also have others help evaluate the firearms and they would never knowingly post or otherwise misrepresent a forgery. I was thinking online auctions like Gunbroker which are much like eBay and the flea market analogy still holds for them.
Men at Arms is a magazine of the NRA for collectors. I'd call one of the dealers that advertises and find out if there is any insurance, etc in case of a fake. Ask if the gun could be shipped to one of the dealers and have them take a look at it- even if there is a small fee- it would be wise.
But when you ask the auction house for written authentication all they'll give you is a bill of sale. There seems to be no shortage of folks ready to buy anything offered up as "real". One place asked me why would anyone go to the effort to make a forgery? Turning a $200 gun into a $2000 gun with a little work and no risk of prosecution is pretty profitable. Makes me wonder what is in most folks collections??
