replica import inc. pistol question....balls???/

[RC]

hello, hey i've got this pistol,flinter, made in italy, from (?) marietta, ohio. says on barrel, anyways guy i got it from said 45 cal... gave me .440 balls, don't fit! bought 433 balls don't fit, got some .400 balls, fit- w/ an .020 patch but really loose!...don't shoot real accurate w/ them either.. anyone else have one of these? it's got a 10 1/4 in barrel. i'm figuring a .42? ball, but they only come in 100's if i'm wrong i'm meltin some good lead... again! any help would be appreciated! thanks! RC

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

hello, hey i've got this pistol,flinter, made in italy, from (?) marietta, ohio. says on barrel, anyways guy i got it from said 45 cal... gave me .440 balls, don't fit! bought 433 balls don't fit, got some .400 balls, fit- w/ an .020 patch but really loose!...don't shoot real accurate w/ them either.. anyone else have one of these? it's got a 10 1/4 in barrel. i'm figuring a .42? ball, but they only come in 100's if i'm wrong i'm meltin some good lead... again! any help would be appreciated! thanks! RC

Hello RC,

A few more details are needed. Many "generic" imports can have significant variations in their barrels and the size ball they shoot.

Do you have,(or maybe a friend, neighbor, or co-worker) a set of calipers that could measure the bore size at the muzzle for you? Is this a rifled barrel, or is it a smoothbore? It does make a difference as to what diameter ball works best. A smoothbore "may" not be very accurate unless the correct size ball is used--likewise for a rifled barrel, if the ball fits loosely, may not shoot too well either.

The above information should give a better starting point for deciding which size ball to use.

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[CrackStock]

Warm a candle until somewhat softened. Press the tapered end into the muzzle and turn it. This does not have to be too deep -- you are just trying to learn the bore size. Pull out so that you now have a small bit of wax that indicates the bore size of the lands. Let this cool and then test make sure that it is still the correct size -- tight in the bore. (Clean any excess wax from the bore.)
Use a micrometer to find the size of the wax plug.

Then you will have better info to order a mold that is tight enough to give you the accuracy that you want.

CS

 

[Zonie]

hello, hey i've got this pistol,flinter, made in italy, from (?) marietta, ohio. says on barrel, anyways guy i got it from said 45 cal... gave me .440 balls, don't fit! bought 433 balls don't fit, got some .400 balls, fit- w/ an .020 patch but really loose!...don't shoot real accurate w/ them either.. anyone else have one of these? it's got a 10 1/4 in barrel. i'm figuring a .42? ball, but they only come in 100's if i'm wrong i'm meltin some good lead... again! any help would be appreciated! thanks! RC

Lets see: Maybe I'm missing something.

.400 dia balls, with a .020 patch fit really loose. That means .400+.020+.020=.440 patch and ball combo is close to the bore size. Maybe a tad smaller than bore size.

Using the ole rule of thumb that says "the ball should be about .010 under the bore size, and it is used with a .015 patch" says a .430 ball would be about right if the barrel is rifled.
Now, this "rule" works pretty good for rifles, but IMO, it is too tight for most pistols.
If the barrel is a smooth bore, it will be way too tight.

I would suggest you use the .433 balls patched with .010 thick patches (if the barrel is rifled).
If the grooves are very shallow, you might want to see if you can find some .005-.008 material. Some cheap COTTON material from a fabric store might work. Don't get anything with man made fibers in it.

 

[RC]

boy i love this forum! lotta smart fellas out there! okay,first it's rifled. tried the caliper thing.... just gotta be smarter than the tool.... get a about(?)420-425 reading. (sorry not as smart as tool!) so bought a .410 mold on auction...(haven't got it yet..it's in the mail..) it's a bag mold so it'll come in handy somewhere..woodswalk,,, something.. I like the candle idea,I'll probably end up w/ a candlestick holder.but i'll give it a shot... as for the .433 balls not fitting, NO PATCH.balls won't go in barrel all by their lonesomes. don't know if the .410 ball will help much... .400 and .020 really loose.. like to try something like a .420? i'm startin to believe this IS NOT a 45 cal. was hoping someone had one and solved the problem and would share their wisdom, but, isn't this what blackpowder's all about?? every one of them guns wants something a little different, god i love this stuff! pistols smoothbores flintlocks hangfires. could it get any better??? THANK YOU gents for your advice, i'll keep you informed, unless i burn my fingers w/ the candle... PADDLE HARD! LIFE IS SHORT!

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

If the conditions you describe are correct--being that the barrel is rifled properly and that the caliber measures .420-.425, then a .410 diameter ball "should be" the proper size in most instances. Remember that even identical models are not 100% identical and may not shoot the exact same ball & patch combinations as each other.

Is your caliper a dial version, LCD display, or a ruled line scale? If it's the last kind, those are hard to read (for my old eyes anyway) to about +or- .005 unless you have VERY good eyes... or a magnifying glass.

When you took the inside measurements of the barrel with the calipers, was it the bore you measured (on top of lands--between two opposing sides) or did you measure between two opposing grooves? Because it's the bore measurement (between lands)that you mostly need to determine the ball size. Subtract the bore measurement from the grooves measurement, and divide that number by 2 and you'll get the depth measurement of the rifling. That number should help you determine the patch thickness.

Just by eyeballing the muzzle. Can you tell if it has deep or shallow groove rifling? That can make a significant difference in the proper ball/patch conbination also, and which should shoot better as well.

Here's a neat little trick I learned for looking in the bore of a muzzleloading pistol. IF it's above .40 caliber, take a primed nickel plated .357 magnum or nickled .38 special case and deactivate the primer by putting enough WD-40 into the case to cover the flash hole for a few days. That should deaden the primer--just in case...

Then after drying the case well, take the nickled case (the primer should be "dead"), and let it slide gently down the bore--primed end up towards the muzzle. Take a good bright flashlight and shine it in the barrel, and you should get a nice reflection to show you the condition of the bore and rifling. If the bore seems really corroded up (from looking at the crown), don't try this as the case could get stuck in the barrel.

If you want to see another 3/4" more of the bore, you can shorten that nickled case (before it's primed) by using a Dremel with a cutoff wheel or a fine hack saw. The only bad thing is you can't see the breech face because your "mirror" blocks the view, but it's still a neat trick and better than nothing for checking your barrel for rust.

Seem to remember... there was a .41 caliber flint derringer made a while back (Dixie Gun Works or Navy Arms?, think it was DGW). It had a .420 bore and took a .410 ball. I don't remember you saying if the gun in question was a derringer or not? But it's also possible that the barrels were bored and rifled by the same machinery in which case it could have been made into a "pistol" length barrel and have that size bore. There were a lot of low cost import guns from about 25-35 yrs ago and the tolerances could fluctuate greatly. Doesn't mean that they aren't good quality, but you have to possess a lot of patience sometimes to get them to perform adequately.

Hope this has helped you some.

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly :front:

 

[RC]

AND ON IT GOES! well received my .410 bag mold, made me up some balls.. appeared small, rooled one down the barrel,lotsa room left, took out the mic, .390! mold says "41" "made in england" says "41" on otherside too. well it didn't cost alot. NOW! as I was rollin' the ball seemed trigger was rollin too, pulled it back,NOTHING! took it apart,mainspring was in three pieces!( this pistol is NOT going to the northeastern with me!unless there's a blanket in front of tent!) figuring how it's a "REPLICA IMPORT CO." pistol, and i've heard "generic" quite a few times, anyone think it's possible to get a mainspring for this thing?? only writing on lock is "2" and it has alot of engraving that looks like an "@" all around lock..anyone got a pic of them pedersoli pistols??? startin to sound like an answer to all this! any help/advice will be deeply appreciated.. and to you wv hillbilly thank you for all your advice! you musta played blackpowder before!!! :shake:

 

[Tight_Wad]

RC

Try the link below for the Davide Pedersoli web site - it gives photo's of all their range of pistols. Likewise, there are sites for Uberti, Euroarms etc etc, if you do a web search you'll find them.

Regards Tight Wad

Davide Pedersoli

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

AND ON IT GOES! well received my .410 bag mold, made me up some balls.. appeared small, rooled one down the barrel,lotsa room left, took out the mic, .390! mold says "41" "made in england" says "41" on otherside too.

took it apart,mainspring was in three pieces!( this pistol is NOT going to the northeastern with me!unless there's a blanket in front of tent!) figuring how it's a "REPLICA IMPORT CO." pistol, and i've heard "generic" quite a few times, anyone think it's possible to get a mainspring for this thing??

only writing on lock is "2" and it has alot of engraving that looks like an "@" all around lock..anyone got a pic of them pedersoli pistols??? startin to sound like an answer to all this! any help/advice will be deeply appreciated.. and to you wv hillbilly thank you for all your advice! you musta played blackpowder before!!! :shake:

Yes, I've been around these "toys" for a while. There are SO many variations. That's why no one has done a really thorough reference on them--like you might find with say German Pistols of WWII to that effect. In many instances, there just aren't decent records and data to be found on most, but that's because some muzzleloading pieces are SO similar.

I have seen locks with just numbering on the back side of the plate also. It's not completely hopeless. It's VERY possible to get a mainspring that will work. You should give Deer Creek Products a call at 1-765-525-6181 (sorry no website). They have LOTS of parts from various sources and guns. They ought to be able to fix you up--IF you can put those 3 mainspring pieces "back together" and get an idea of the size of it--if it were intact. They can be installed with a pair of "vise-grip pliers", but a regular tool made just for compressing springs is better. It's also better if the jaws of the vise grips are smooth--instead of the typical toothed/serrated jaws. BUT if you're uncomfortable doing that kind of thing, it's an easy fix for just about any gunsmith. But you need to find that spring first.

Regarding that mould being "off". Since that's a European mould, the English will sometimes name things by bore size and sometimes by groove size. A .390 diameter ball would be about right in a ".41 cal" smoothbore. Whereas a .410 diameter ball would fit a ".42 cal" rifled barrel. I hope this does make some sense to you? It can get both confusing and frustrating!

I should've been tipped off by how easily you found a .41 cal mould. That is NOT a "standard" size for common found moulds made in this country. You maybe could sell it to a muzzleloader who needs a mould for a .40cal rifle. I don't know what you had to pay for it (you said it didn't cost a lot), but if I lived close by I'd take it off your hands. I could use it as a backup mould for a .40cal rifle I'm looking at buying. Send me a PM about it, maybe we can work a deal.
Good luck on your quest, and keep in touch.

Shoot Safely! (after you get it fixed of course...)
WV_Hillbilly

 

[CrackStock]

http://www.cherrys.com/ped_pist.htm

Better option for ya.

CS

 

[flintlockmdj]

When I first started shooting B.P., '74 there were some cheep imported pistols avalable in .41 cal. that sound a lot like what you have. I would try a .410 ball and thin patch.