Restoration Ethics Question

[Ken Donnel]

I recently acquired a late percussion period 11 ga doublegun. It is in the catagory of low to fair as it has suffered gross punshiment by a previous owner. It is however a signed weapon. E.R. Seiber Jacksonville, ILL. on both lock plates and barrel rib, also marked "Fine Twist" The cartouch on the breech and barrels are Birmingham Eng. ca. 1856. It is mmissing a 1/2 to 1 inch chunk at the toe as well as some damage around the trigger plate mortise. Missing wood behind the double hooked breech in front of the lockplate bolt. Most of the original screws have been replaced. Has two well worn brass mending plates which are on either side of the wrist. Upper tang is cracked through the foward tang bolt and the rear tang bolt has been attempted to have been drilled out and has a broken head. The left hammer is not original to the lock. all steel has been wiped with a substance to remove the rust, so everything is in the white with pitting. The barrels have been steelwooled upon in places and that ruined the brown patina. Wiping stick/ loading rod is missing. Forend escushions are in place but one is cracked. All furniture is steel except the escushion plates and inital plate in the toe area, they are German Silver. The question is, is it ethical to repair the missing wood, repair the locks, and rebrown the barrels? I do not have the Curtis Johnson book VOL II of Historical Gunmakers of Illinois, so I do not know if examples of Mr. Seiber's work exist or or what importance he was. I just think it is a shame to leave this weapon in the condition that it is in at the present! What say you!!

 

[paulvallandigham]

As long as you take pictures of the gun in its current condition, and document all the modifications you describe here, that occurred before you got the gun, then go ahead and do the needed repairs, or have them done professionally, and take pictures to document what is done, and when, and by whom, so that you can give that to any subsequent owner, with your own affidavit as to the condition of the gun at the time of sale, I don't think you are at all wrong in restoring this old gun.

Most of the guns made were to be used, and frankly, most of those guns were used up. Many ended up in scrap drives for WWI, or WWII. Some were sold as scrap metal, and the wood used for something else. Many barrels ended up as fence posts in some locations! Others were heated and pounded out into new items. The more rural the area, the less likely something was just thrown away. ANy time you can save an old gun, with a known maker's name on it, it is going to add to the value of what now exists. Just don't try to pass this off as an " original ", when its not, and try to make sure that some future owner cannot pass this off as an " original". That means putting dates and your name on parts that are replaced, or redone, where a buyer making a close inspection is going to find that information. :thumbsup:

 

[Robbo]

The question of whether or not to repair can depend on a number of factors.

Firstly, I would consider the relative scarcity of the gun and its historical value. From what you decribe, it sounds like a gun made "in the white" or even to a finished state and sent to the "colonies" in the tens of thousands by the cagey gunmakers of Birmingham. We have heaps of them here. Often they would be branded as if made by the importer who might or might not have finshed off the gun. These importers could have been anything from actual gunmakers buying in finished or semi - finished product, or Department stores, catalogue sales houses and the like.

If this is the case, you most likely have an example of what was in its day a solid workmanlike gun that anyoe would have been happy to have, but most likely no great rarity. In this case, I would not hestitate to restore it myself.

On the other hand, if it had solid provenance to a famous former owner (eg Jesse James or Abe Lincoln etc) then its definiely one to give to the experts. Likewise, if it was made by a famous high quality maker of the era such as Jas Purdey and Sons, I would be handing it to an expert to handle.

Just a few thoughts. Good Luck

Robbo

 

[matt denison]

I have several of these old wall hanger type guns hanging variously about in my house. I leave them in original conditiion. To me the evidence of hard use such as screw heads twisted off, a few missing pieces of wood etc. are testiment to their heritage. I have one that has a nail holding it together. It would be easy to replace with a proper pin but I leave it that way because that is the repair that someone thought apropriate back then. I consider them antiques and don't intend to fire them. If you plan to carry and shoot that gun then I say by all means fix 'er up a little, then your repair has become a part of it's heritage too.

Matt Denison

 

[Stormrider51]

I have to second what Paul said, especially the part about documenting original condition and the changes that are made. Pass this information along to any future owner. I say this because I recently had the sad task of telling a customer than what he had purchased as an original percussion revolver was actually a fake. A very well done fake but a fake regardless. It wasn't worth a fraction of what the man paid for it. We owe it to our brother shooters and collectors to make every effort to guarantee that things we do will be documented. Please don't think that I'm implying that you or anyone on this forum would engage in fraud! It's possible that the guy who did the work on that revolver didn't intend to defraud anyone either but if the gun changed hands several times it may well have been assumed to be original because of its appearance.

Storm

 

[pichou]

I think you have a fairly common Birmingham gun in poor condition. Even if you restock it, you probably won't have a shooter with those twist barrels. Shine up the wood, patch and match the missing chunks, and hang it over the fireplace.

The worse it looks, the higher you hang it. :rotf:

 

[Ken Donnel]

Thanks Paul, and as a fellow Illinoisan I like your reply!! I am going to querry Hershel House, if I ever get the time, and George Shumway as to the historical signifigance of the maker. I live about 80 miles southeast of Jacksonville. Right now I am in the field with planting so gun stuff for myself and my customers goes on the back burner. As of now I am trying to de-foul 5the interior of the barrels. The left is obstructed. I believe someone left it charged and when the charge was pulled, at some time in the past, the tamped powder remained to draw moisture, etc. Have it sitting in kerosene to kill the charge and losen the crud. Will document the weapon further once it is completly devoid of any remaining powder residue. Again...THANKS!!

 

[paulvallandigham]

You might also call Curt Johnson. He lives near Princeton, Illinois. His multi-volume book on Gunsmakers of Illinois is expensive, but a terrific work of research, and a welcome reference tool for those interested in knowing more about the early gun trade and makers. Years ago I was looking for a gunmaker named " Judy"( last name) and had no luck sending an inquiry through the NMLRA to the fellow in Oklahoma who has that terrific museum of firearms. When I talked to Curt about his book, he told me right off that the guy I was looking for so many years ago did exist, and was one of the early gunmakers and gunsmiths here in Illinois country, down near St. Louis. Sadly, the friend who asked me about this ancestor had since passed away, and I lost track of his daughter, so I cannot pass on this information to the family. But, I was unexpectedly surprised at how much information Curt had found on this man.