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Revolutionary War Reproduction Rifles

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I am new to muzzleloaders and I am looking into buying a rifle based on rifles used in the Revolutionary War. One of my ancestors was a rifleman that served under George Washington, so trying to honor his service. I have seen been mainly looking at Tradition's or Pedersoli rifles. I'm leaning towards the Pennsylvania rifle over the Kentucky since it has the adjustable rear sights and the Pedersoli version has a longer barrel. I wanted to get people's opinions about those guns (or others) since I know very little about the specifics. Any suggestions are appreciated!
I own a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle and it is NOT based on any Rev War rifles. I specifically bought that production gun because
Traditions claims some reenactment group said it was correct for the period. It is not correct for the period. The reenactment group I joined had a gunmaker who was a member. He educated me about longrifles during the period and gave me some references I could look up. When I bought mine it came with a 40¼" barrel, which was a little short for a longrifle but well within the range of the period. Now it looks like it comes with a 33½" barrel which is so short as to cause me to wonder if it could be called a longrifle. Isaac Haines made a number of longrifles with 38" long barrels but that was about as short as they got. Traditions now seems to call this their .50-cal Pennsylvania Carbine longrifle. Carbine is used to refer to a shorter weapon and to my knowledge the only carbines in the Rev War were the muskets that the cavalry and officers often had. Those were not rifles.

The Traditions PA Longrifle is much too ornate for the Rev War period. During the war there was a huge demand for rifles and when the war ended, all of a sudden a great chunk of that demand died. You ended up with a lot of rifle makers who were all competing for the same buyers. This resulted in much more ornamentation than was found on longrifles before or during the Rev War to help elevate the gunmaker's rifles above those of his competition. This ushered in the "Golden Age" of the longrifle when some of the best looking and most artfully done longrifles appeared. Another thing that a LOT of production long rifles have wrong is the shape of the wrist. On the Traditions the wrist is tall and narrow. On the real thing and on my Early Lancaster rifle the wrist is wider than it is tall. That's because it is much stronger and less likely to crack or breack than the tall, thin ones.

Prior to the end of the Rev War ornamentation along the forearm of the stock as you see in the Traditions rifle was almost entirely non-existent. So the brass hunter's star plates you see on the sides are not something you'd see until after the war. The circle of weeping hearts at the wrist of the rifle is also something you wouldn't see. The Hunter's star on the cheekpiece is actually something you would see on some rifles. Mostly the decor on the rifles was a combination of incise carving and Rococo-style relief carving. If you were having a gun made for someone, a thumbpiece might be inlaid behind the tang of the barrel commemerating the gift or event. The early patch boxes were sliding wood. Then came the brass ones that were a solid piece but had a signature decoration like a daisy or some other figure on the front of it. Pierced patchboxes (brass with pieces cut out to show the wood through) didn't become common until the Golden Age either.

And of course the Traditions longrifle is made out of Walnut whereas the overwhelming majority of American Longrifles were made from rock maple. You'd find some made out of cherry or other woods from time to time, but almost none made from Walnut. The English rifles were made from walnut but they weren't really longrifles but closer to the Jaeger rifles (short, stocky with about a 62 caliber barrel). The bluing on the barrel is actually period correct although the charcoal bluing that they used resulted in a brighter blue than normally seen on firearms. And of course, there were no adjustable sights such as you find on the Traditions PA longrifle. They used primitive sights. I also has a much thinner rifle butt and a deeper crescent shape to it than you'd see during the Rev War.

Also, since it is a tapered straight barrel, it is a very nose heavy rifle to hold and to shoot. Speaking of shooting, mine shoots very well, but requires a heavy charge of 95gr. of 3Fg powder to do so. And then there's that Roman Nose shape of the stock. There were rifles that used that but they were much better suited to shooting than that rifle's stock. The stock is absolutely straight and there is no cast off to it. Because of that I had to angle my head over the stock to line up the sights. And then I got a bruised cheek from doing that as the recoil drove it back and UP into my cheek. To avoid that, you can put your cheek farther back on the stock than normal to get behind that Roman Nose a bit, but don't forget to do so or you will end up with a bruised cheek or black eye. I've found it is easier to use an old shotgunner's trick of turning my nose into the stock a bit and sighting out the corner of my eye. When fired using this method, your head is not bent over the stock and recoil is not a problem. You don't get a bruised cheek. That's the method I settled on.

I see the price is almost $1,000 now. I paid $420 back in 2004 for mine. I might suggest you check into getting a rifle built for you or get what they call a "semi-custom" long rifle. These are not cut out by a CNC machine but rather hand shaped by the builder using modern tools. In 2006 I bought an Early Lancaster Rifle from a member of this forum for $1100. It has a .50-cal swamped barrel (like an hour glass turned on its side but not so radical in shape). That was how the rifles were made at the time and because of their shape they balance nicely right about where you put your hand to hold the stock. The make them easy to mount, swing, and hold on target. Mine could pass for a F&I War era rifle because it has a wide butt (just under 2" wide) uses incise carving only and doesn't have patchbox. It's also pretty long with its 44½" swamped barrel. It stands a hair over 5-feet long from butt to muzzle. Even though it's longer than the Traditions, it's a full 2-lbs lighter because of the way it was made with a very slender forearm. I'd really suggest you save your money for a bit and target perhaps a longrifle from a semi-custom builder costing around $1500. Also, don't hesitate to check the classifieds here. That's where I found mine.

I've attached a picture of my Early Lancaster longrifle. It uses a L&R "Queen Anne" Lock, which was an English lock made from about 1620 to 1740 and imported to the colonies by the barrelful.
 

Attachments

  • Early Lancaster.JPG
    Early Lancaster.JPG
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Well there’s a few arguments to be made about rifles used during the revolutionary war, some points to consider.

1. There were no standard rifles on the american side, standardized military rifles were not introduced until the 1790’s and even then they were contracted out.

2. I would focus on the history of the american long rifle and the era that the revolutionary war fits into, same with french and Indian war.

3. The debate as to how much rifles were actually used is a long winded one, one thing i can say is that they were used however, smoothbores were used in equal numbers in american sharp shooter units. Example, Daniel Boone preferred to trek with his smoothbore.

4. The British had more rifles that the Americans, and better ones. British and Hessian rifles of the period were state of the art, and designed as weapons of war, american rifles were hunting tools.

5. Rifles owned by militia and continentals were often left at home where they were safe, this was so because they were expensive items, it took up to a years wages for a decent long rifle.

6. Your typical era of the long rifle that fits into the revolutionary war period is 1760-1770, absolutely not a KILLDEAR. These rifles used a variety of locks, many were English made and shipped over. American locks or Siler locks in the french tulle style could either be double or single bridled, naturally a double bridle lock would have been the latest upgrade of the era.

Lastly, if you intend on re-enacting with a long rifle, I’d make sure it’s a high caliber, 54-62. Dumping blank round powder without ramming down a small bore rifle can be problematic.

The Colonial Long Rifle by Kibler is a good option, nobody would really argue with you as to its authenticity of the era even though it does have some characteristics that don’t fit the era.

Jim Chambers Isaac Haines Rifle, smooth rifle and early York rifles are also good options as are any of the earlier patterns some of the later 1770 patterns are questionable for the era but i don’t think it matters much. Earlier patterns such as an Americanized Jaeger would have larger bores.
Excellent post and you answered his questions well.
 
kren626, There is no cheap solution to acquiring a good flintlock rifle. If you go cheap (Traditions/ Pedersoli) you will not be satisfied and end up buying another gun later. I see this over and over with guys I teach and compatriots in the SAR. I'm guilty of it myself (34 yrs ago).
First thing is research. Know what the gun you want is suppose to be. The fancy brass 4 piece, pierced and engraved patch boxes and silver inlay mountings did not come about until after the Rev War. They are from what is called the golden age 1790 - 1820 and a little beyond.
This book just came out. it is available from Historic Rock Ford Shop | Historic Rock Ford
View attachment 221722
Another book I recommend is George C. Neumann's "Weapons of the American Revolution" and his "Collector's Encyclopedia"
A new rifle will cost from $3000 to #12000. Thank goodness there are used guns now on the market that can be had for a little less. But be choosey! Make sure it has been well taken care of. Price will depend on gun builder and age.
Start with Track of the Wolf for decent rifles, new and used. Also Dixie Gun Works.
Good hunting, DY
Where can I buy this book
 
The book is available for about $55 + tax from Alibris - do a search on "bookfinder.com" - a great search engine for booksellers worldwide.
 
I just checked Bookfinder & it is no longer shown. Looks like I got Alibris' last copy. Guess it is back to Rock Ford at full price.
 
The above chastization was mis applied. (and unneccesary?)

BTW I am the leader of our group of 10 thumbed clods. Knowing I would butcher my Kibler I made several change orders and ended up with a plain maple stocked .40 SMR in the white. The tools I would have to order made up the difference. I thought I could stain and finish (have done CVA kits etc.). When the gun arrived it was so dang beutiful I froze up and have yet to stain/finish (I did reach out to one of our members that builds and has a lot of stuff posted here I drool over, alas he no longer builds?) My fear of my thumbs has still kept me from appling stain to the beautiful piece of wood (I did order some though). I will likley complete the splotch job this summer though, getting real tired of waiting!
 
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I just checked Bookfinder & it is no longer shown. Looks like I got Alibris' last copy. Guess it is back to Rock Ford at full price.
Alibris just cancelled my order saying that they are out of stock. I guess someone else got their last copy.
 
To the OP - watch 'The Patriot' movie, and note the style of the rifles used by the 'hero' in the ambush on the British column. They represent what a Revolutionary war rifle looked like - made by a well-known poster on this very forum.
At least they got one detail right. It may be the only one. 😡
 
I am new to muzzleloaders and I am looking into buying a rifle based on rifles used in the Revolutionary War. One of my ancestors was a rifleman that served under George Washington, so trying to honor his service. I have seen been mainly looking at Tradition's or Pedersoli rifles. I'm leaning towards the Pennsylvania rifle over the Kentucky since it has the adjustable rear sights and the Pedersoli version has a longer barrel. I wanted to get people's opinions about those guns (or others) since I know very little about the specifics. Any suggestions are appreciated!
Since you are looking for a "rifle" then I would suggest one of Kibler's kits either his Colonial kit or his Woodsrunner kit. Both would be something you would be proud to own. I would also think of considering a smooth bore musket such as a Brown Bess or a Charleville.
 
Well there’s a few arguments to be made about rifles used during the revolutionary war, some points to consider.

1. There were no standard rifles on the american side, standardized military rifles were not introduced until the 1790’s and even then they were contracted out.

2. I would focus on the history of the american long rifle and the era that the revolutionary war fits into, same with french and Indian war.

3. The debate as to how much rifles were actually used is a long winded one, one thing i can say is that they were used however, smoothbores were used in equal numbers in american sharp shooter units. Example, Daniel Boone preferred to trek with his smoothbore.

4. The British had more rifles that the Americans, and better ones. British and Hessian rifles of the period were state of the art, and designed as weapons of war, american rifles were hunting tools.

5. Rifles owned by militia and continentals were often left at home where they were safe, this was so because they were expensive items, it took up to a years wages for a decent long rifle.

6. Your typical era of the long rifle that fits into the revolutionary war period is 1760-1770, absolutely not a KILLDEAR. These rifles used a variety of locks, many were English made and shipped over. American locks or Siler locks in the french tulle style could either be double or single bridled, naturally a double bridle lock would have been the latest upgrade of the era.

Lastly, if you intend on re-enacting with a long rifle, I’d make sure it’s a high caliber, 54-62. Dumping blank round powder without ramming down a small bore rifle can be problematic.

The Colonial Long Rifle by Kibler is a good option, nobody would really argue with you as to its authenticity of the era even though it does have some characteristics that don’t fit the era.

Jim Chambers Isaac Haines Rifle, smooth rifle and early York rifles are also good options as are any of the earlier patterns some of thei later 1770 patterns are questionable for the era but i don’t think it matters much. Earlier patterns such as an Americanized Jaeger would have larger bores.
 
Where did you find old Boone preferred smoothbores? He was a rifleman. His son Nathan said he carried a fowling piece at the BlueLicks battle but that was the only time I read he used one.
 
If I missed this sorry. The OP mentioned that he liked one brsnd over another because it had adjustable sights. Well they didn't to my knowledge. Start haunting the used market until you find what would be appropriate. I would also reccomend posting a few pictures before you buy it. Or do AĹOT of research if you are looking to duplicate a certain time period.
 
Depending on the OP's location, I heartily recommend The Gun Works in Springfield OR, run by Suzi and Dave [now], after Joe's sad passing a few years back. No friendlier bunch of people in the business could be imagined.

Anybody making contact with them, please pass on my best wishes to them all.
 
Some folks here can build a live steam locomotive from scratch, or make a violin. Others can make truly beautiful furniture that is fit to grace even the White House. They are rare birds indeed. So you saying that you have a 'basic skill set' and then tell us about making so many stocks from scratch, just as though it's something that anybody can just sit down and do, makes those of us who can't do it appear to be ten-thumbed clods.

Talking down to those of us less handy than you, and suggesting that they might have other issues that prevent them from sharing your level of skills, does you no favours, Sir.
I don't think he was 'talking down'; he was stating that we all have skills that can be honed; maybe he could have stated it a bit more 'less-direct'.
 
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