rifle for muzzleloading hunting

[PreglerD]

Hello hunting colleges, I'm from Germany and start hunting with ML there. In my hunting-ground roes are very common. they are the only deer-game. further on there is fox, rabbitt, ducks and very scarce red deer. Because of the German hunting law, where a 100 meter-energy of 1000 Joule for shooting at roes is regulated, I use a Investarms Hawken, cal. 54 with a 410 grs minie bullet and 70 grs swiss powder no.2. this gives a muzzle-velocity of about 340m/s or 1020 fps and a muzzleenergy of 1600 J. I think the energy and velocity is o.k. Do you think that the rifle and the bullet are o.k. accuracy is good, 3 shots at 50 meters in 2 inch.

Greetings from Germany

Kirrmeister

 

[whitetrash078]

I think the energy and velocity are good, the main thing is being able to place the bullet right where you want it. Some feel that with a minie the shoulder is the best placement for a minie; where as many feel a round ball does better in the heart/lungs. YMMV :thumbsup:

 

[PreglerD]

Problem with the ball will be the less energy vecessary by German Hunting Law.When I'm hunting with smokeless rifles I use a .308 Win. with 150 grs soft point and I always shoot behind the shoulder through the deep or middle loungs.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu might take less of a beating using Goex FFg powder, which burns slower and does not create such pressure in the chamber. Recoil is dependant on the weight of the minie ball, and at 410 grains, you are going to feel a good push. The Swiss powder is suppose to be faster burning, and similar to the Goex FFFg powder in pressure. Depending on accuracy, which is always paramount, and then the weight of the gun and how much recoil you can take, you can raise that powder charge up in 5 grain increments to see if you can't find an even more accurate load, with more speed, and shooting slightly flatter. The load you are now shooting would be the equivalent to a .54-70-410 Black Powder Cartridge load. compare that to a .50-70-550 load, or a .45-70-405 grain load. All have enough energy to completely penetrate any deer or elk if shot broadside. Those big conicals will also break bones, if you should hit a shoulder or leg bone. Whether they will expand at all depends on how large an animal you shoot, and whether the ball hits bone. The rib bones on deer are usually too thin to cause much of an upset to these large bullets. If the bullets don't expand, losing energy inside the animal's vital organs, it is likely to completely penetrate the animal and expend its energy in the ground or trees beyond the animal. You should be able to handle velocity of near 1200 fps. with that bullet weight. dThat will give you velicity and energy levels much closer to the .45-70 and .50-70 cartridges provide. Chances are good you will take a shot at much less than 100 meters, so I would not worry about killing a deer, even using this lighter load you now have. If you can buy the slower burning Swiss 1 1/2 powder, which I have read is like Goex FFg powder, try shooting that. You should be able to increase that powder charge to 90 grains, get a bit more velocity, and not lose any accuracy, or increase felt recoil on your shoulder.

 

[PreglerD]

Thanks for the detailed answer. problem is that Goex is a bit hard to get in Germany, but we have another blackpowder from WANO that seems to be similar to GOEX. I will first try this. Are there in the US special hunting bulltes used ?

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Patched Round Ball, cast of pure lead is soft enough to flatten in heavy flesh. Expansion is obviously greater if bone is hit. A heavy ball like that fired from a .54 caliber rifle( 230 grains) is going to penetrate deeply, but any expansion will be in the animal, and the resulting changes in shock waves producing a larger secondary wound cavity, and shock to the nervous system. All this makes the traditional PRB a fine killing projectile, in spite of the fact that it does not fly through air very well at all. That's a nice way to say its Ballistically inferior to just about anything else! PRB is used in Black Powder hunting because shots are usually close, well inside 100 meters, and often inside 50 meters. I hunt river bottoms, and all my shots at deer have been inside 40 yards! One deer was killed at about 2 meters. I can see the deer coming towards me in these conditions at as much as 75-100 yds, but getting a clean shot requires them to get much closer. I suspect from what I know of hunting conditions in Germany that you are not likely to take many long range shots. The one long range shot I passed on gave me place to set up on later in the day, and sure enough, a 5 point buck came back down the same path I had seem him running across in th early morning hours.

 

[PreglerD]

You're rihgt with your suspection abaout German hunting conditions. In Germany a normal distance in the forest will be from 30 to 60 meter. Because German forests are now again very thick you can't see very far, especially when hunting on roes, which live in the thick parts of the forests. I now have found a matrix in the German gun law with maximum loads allowed to use in muzzleloaders. There it is possible to load a charge of 138 grs (9g)blackpowder with a 431 grs conical ball. All blackpowder rifles are tested by the German shooting offices (Beschussamt)with this loads and no rifle is allowed to be traded without test. i think this is a bit different to the US. So with this loads you certainly have enough energy for hunting on roes an perhaps red deer or wild boar. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

That sounds like a proof load, and not the recommended load for hunting. I can see where the state wants to be sure that your gun is in good enough condition to meet a modern proofing standard, considering the number of antiques still around. Check with them to see if you are required to use that much of a load.

 

[Plains99]

I shoot that .54 powder charge using Wano black powder (Grafs) and a 430-grain conical in a Dixie Jaeger and it knocks the Pee-Pee out of deer at 80 to 100 yards. I really enjoy it although I do not consider it a long range load or gun. Great stalking and jump hunting gun. I'd think you rifle and load would work very well in the German forests.

 

[whitetrash078]

If you must use conicals I would recomend buffalo bullets or hornady great plains bullets if they are to be had in Germany. I have used these with great success on whitetail deer here in the states. I don't know what the rate of twist is in your rifle but if it is slow say, 1-66 or something you could try buffalo ball-ets if they are avaiable to you; however, I don't know if they would meet the energy requirement, but they would be much better than a round ball for energy retention.

sorry for the long winded post :yakyak:

 

[PreglerD]

The charges given as a maximum from the state are certainly not used as a hunting load from me. I think I will at first start with 70 grs PPP POWEX form WANO and a casted .410 minie out of the mould. This will bring the necessary 100 meter-energy for roe-hunting. I fthe bullet doesn't work then I try to get these special hunting bullet from dixie or any other US-Trader.Looking forward to my first game.

 

[PreglerD]

Hello kolleges, we were always talking about the charges and bullets, but what is to be said about the rifle I will use, the cal.54 Investarms Hawken?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Investarms builds a good, reliable rifle, it looks nothing like a "Hawken" but they work OK. :grin:

 

[PreglerD]

I know this, but for me the value as a hunting rifle comes first than the authentic style. For me rifles are tools!

 

[whitetrash078]

But a damn pretty tool :grin:

 

[PreglerD]

You are right. Until now I have only expiriences in hunting with modern rifles,I have started now hunting with ML. Think it will be great fun.

 

[PreglerD]

Because, as I told you, ML-Hunting in Germany is not very common I want to know which equipment is used and how the rifle is loaded on the hunt, out of the horn oder flask or is the powder charged in little glas tubes like on the shooting range. Is the original ramrod used or a special ramrod and finally how is the rifle be deloaded after hunting? Are there special rules by law?

sorry for these questions they might seem silly, but in Germany this is newland.

Greetings from Bavaria, Germany

Kirrmeister