Rifled musket question.

I have a Zouave with what is probably a 1:48 twist. I'm curious as to what is considered good accuracy at what ranges.
The best I've done with mine was with the Hornady solid base Great Plains bullet at 1.5" a 50 yards and 3" at 75.
I'm shooting 100 grains of 2fg and I know that isn't exactly the service load.
What was the original standard of accuracy for the Civil War era musket.
There must be some kind of documentation to refer to.
With hollow based minie bullets the accuracy is bad to downright horrible with 50 and 60 grains of 2fg.

 

[LRB]

Best I recall, around a 4" group at 100 yrd, for the Springfield. I had a Zouave back in the 70's with a 1-90 something twist, it would do at best 3" at 50 yrd.

 

[musketman]

With hollow based minie bullets the accuracy is bad to downright horrible with 50 and 60 grains of 2fg.

Odd, I can hit a readers digest (small print version) at 110 yards with my Zouave using the old style (460 grain) minie ball lubed with alox and 80 grains of FFg...

Paper went flying every where, signals a "HIT"... :haha: :winking:

Did you put the minie ball in the right way? :winking:

Makes for one heck of a hollow point... :shocking: :haha:

 

[ResearchPress]

Makes for one heck of a hollow point...

Which of course did make for improved accuracy with the Minie as Metford found when developing his explosive bullets!

The system was used with the Snider-Enfield bullet, although the bullet was of course fired the right way round!! :winking:

David

 

[Zonie]

Quoten Mooskeetman: "Odd, I can hit a readers digest (small print version) at 110 yards with my Zouave using the old style (460 grain) minie ball lubed with alox and 80 grains of FFg... "

Wal, tha way Ah sees it, what happened are ye set up the Readers Discust an went back ta tha farin line.
Loaded her up an jus by luck ye blew yer target all ta pieces on yer first shot so ye said, by golly this are one good shootin gun.

Tha groops Ah get outter ma .58s are 'bout like em other folks, an yes Ah'm a puttin in the minie fat end in furst, pointy end out afore Ah rams her home.

 

I think I'd try one of the LEE REAL bullets in the .58. A couple friends have the .58 Kodiak double rifle. One got his shooting to a single sight suing 120gr. 2F and patched RB while the other has a proper shotingdouble rifle with REAL bulelts with 90gr. 2F in eacc tube. Both guns shoot paralelle - PERFECT just like this 00. The group centres are 1 1/8" apart all the way from 25 yds. to past 100dys.
:In other words, they got to remove 1 set of sights. I've heard of other .58 Doubles that couldn't be made to shoot within 10' of each other at 100yds.& couldn't be sighted with the 2 sets of sights.
: Like MaxiBall says, the 575213OS was a good shooter in the Zouave-was in mine too. I thickened the skirt about double by turning down the plug in my poor-man's lathe & they came out at 480gr. Originally, this was the bullet for the Dragoon Pistol Carbine, while the standard minnie was 500gr. I never did get mine to shoot that one, either. The short minie with 90gr. 2F (thickened skirt) shot like a patched ball for accuracy. Mine had the 72" twist, though. As long as they wre going fast enough, the bulelts would shoot. Not surprisingly, the shortest was the best shooter in slugs. With RB, that Zouave liked right up to 150gr. 2F for, perhaps 6,000-8,000LUP in pressure. I can't find my old Lyman book right now. It's amazing how much LESS pressure the big bores develope than the ones .54 and smaller.
Daryl

 

Y Y Y You M M M Mean the hollow end goes in first and comes out last???? Awe manure! I got it wrong again. :curse:

 

David:
Glad to see you made it over to this forum!! :applause: ::

 

[ResearchPress]

Hi Maxi, good to have caught up with you!

What was the original standard of accuracy for the Civil War era musket. There must be some kind of documentation to refer to.

Don't have any info to hand on short range, but have a look at my Long Range Muzzle Loader web site (www.lrml.org). In the directory section you will find a reprint of part of Whitworth's 1873 text, 'Guns and Steel'. That includes some results from contempory tests comparing the Whitworth and the Enfield rifles. Distances start at 500 yards.

With hollow based minie bullets the accuracy is bad to downright horrible with 50 and 60 grains of 2fg.

In a recent match at 200 yards I shot a 6" group with my P/61 Enfield (33" barrel and 1 in 48" twist). No support other than a sling. Load was a a c560 grain RCBS Minie bullet with 75 grains of a 'medium grade' shooting powder sold here in the UK. Not especially 'strong', and the fouling stays soft, which is important as no cleaning is permitted in military rifle matches.

Minie bullets are capable of good accuracy.

David

 

[ResearchPress]

The short minie with 90gr. 2F (thickened skirt) shot like a patched ball for accuracy.

Is that meant to be good or bad!? :winking:

I presume you are talking short range (100yd or less)? Your loads of 150gr are twice what we use in the UK for target shooting out to 600 yards.

David

 

That's GOOD accuracy.
; My loads are for shooting Moose, not target loads and are shot from a Hawken rifle with 1 1/8" barrel. The only reason for shooting minnies is for a fast second shot with a rifle that is too small in the bore(pressure too high) to shoot accurately with paper ctgs. The thin minnie base didn't shoot well, of course, with hunting loads.
: Yes - I'm aware of the musket competitions. Something that always interested me, but never got into, due to lack of that sort of competition in this Province.
Daryl

 

[hawkeye2]

Your accuracy isn't too bad and you should have no trouble duplicating it with a mini ball. You don't need all that powder though, 35 to 45 grains of 2f will do just as well. I've been skirmishng for almost 20 years and shoot 42g of 2f w/ Rapine 315g mini wadcutter sized .001" under bore dia., Lubed with TC Borebutter. We use the 42g load since it gives good results in all 3 of our muskets. Two have Numrich barrels and one is a Hoyt relined Mississippi. Some consider 1 in 48 a little fast for a mini rifle, Bobby Hoyt just lengthened and relined an original 61 Springfield barrel, 3 groves, 1 in 60" (his recomendation), haven't had a chance to try it yet. Probably about 700 ft./sec. mv and about a 30" drop at 100 yds. It is fun to watch a 100 yd. target through a scope while my wife benches her musket, you see a big black object plunging down at a steep angle through the target. It takes a little pratice to cast a good mini (no voids, etc.) and I have never been able to do it with a bottom pore furnace. Size to .001" under bore dia. and use a lube that will not run and will keep the fouling soft. If you can load and fire 10 rounds at a rate of 2-3 well aimed shots per minute on a hot day you probably have got the combo.

 

Don't have any info to hand on short range, but have a look at my Long Range Muzzle Loader web site (www.lrml.org). In the directory section you will find a reprint of part of Whitworth's 1873 text, 'Guns and Steel'. That includes some results from contempory tests comparing the Whitworth and the Enfield rifles. Distances start at 500 yards.
In a recent match at 200 yards I shot a 6" group with my P/61 Enfield (33" barrel and 1 in 48" twist). No support other than a sling. Load was a a c560 grain RCBS Minie bullet with 75 grains of a 'medium grade' shooting powder sold here in the UK. Not especially 'strong', and the fouling stays soft, which is important as no cleaning is permitted in military rifle matches.

Yes it's good to hear from you again.
That's mighty fine shooting with just a sling for a rest.
I think I'll cut my charges back to around 70 grains and give it a go again.