riflin

[sethwyo]

Looking for a bit of information if there's anyone who has some written historical accounts from people who used an built/ repaired rifles in the 1700s and 1800s,

Recently just read something right here on the form and while I'm not arguing or wanting to start a fight with anybody,
they don't believe that a muzzleloader could ever lose its rifling from being used,
but I remember reading about people who after some time had to take their rifle either to a gunsmith or do it themselves,
they had to put new rifling down the barrel because after a certain number of rounds were fired the rifling was wearing out, and it was not being worn out entirely from the lead ball it was being worn out from the effects of the black powder and from cleaning,

Part of it is the various different sizes of round balls that were used such as 50 52, 54 etc.
It does seem that the reason why there were bigger sizes of bullets is so that it would weigh more and have more power,
I can't think where I read it or heard it from but it seems to me that the reason why there was something like a 54 caliber is because the rifling eventually wore out, for example on a half inch or what we call today a 50 ,
and when the rifling wore out from use, the person had to add , or have someone else add vnew rifling and this caused them to need a bit bigger bullet to fill up the rifling.

Rifle barrels were made of soft iron they were not made of highly tempered steel because the steel was difficult to clean and the soft iron cleaned much better cleaning the fouling out of it.

So I've always kind of figured the reason why the method of using a cloth or leather patch around the ball to help it fit more tightly in the rifling , originated with somebody that had a ball that wouldn't fit into their rifling after they had their rifle re-rifled because the old rifling was wore out from shooting, and they simply tightened it up by wrapping a cloth or a leather patch around it, and that's how that method came to be used.

Remember that rifling, that made the big difference in being able to actually hit what you aimed at, was actually discovered by accident by someone who started out putting grooves down the barrel to take up the powder fouling, and then later someone determined that putting in spiral grooves would take up a lot more of the powder fouling and put off having to clean the gun,
And it was then determined that the spiral grooves gave the ball more accuracy and that before someone started using patched balls they put the bullet in and then pounded it into place deforming it so that when it was fired out it would be bigger and take up the rifling instead of just flying out without spinning

 

[rafterob]

Freshenin' a barrel is what it was called in this area. The gentleman that built my flintlock has performed this operation on a number of muzzleloaders in his career.

 

[smoothshooter]

Looking for a bit of information if there's anyone who has some written historical accounts from people who used an built/ repaired rifles in the 1700s and 1800s,

Recently just read something right here on the form and while I'm not arguing or wanting to start a fight with anybody,
they don't believe that a muzzleloader could ever lose its rifling from being used,
but I remember reading about people who after some time had to take their rifle either to a gunsmith or do it themselves,
they had to put new rifling down the barrel because after a certain number of rounds were fired the rifling was wearing out, and it was not being worn out entirely from the lead ball it was being worn out from the effects of the black powder and from cleaning,

Part of it is the various different sizes of round balls that were used such as 50 52, 54 etc.
It does seem that the reason why there were bigger sizes of bullets is so that it would weigh more and have more power,
I can't think where I read it or heard it from but it seems to me that the reason why there was something like a 54 caliber is because the rifling eventually wore out, for example on a half inch or what we call today a 50 ,
and when the rifling wore out from use, the person had to add , or have someone else add vnew rifling and this caused them to need a bit bigger bullet to fill up the rifling.

Rifle barrels were made of soft iron they were not made of highly tempered steel because the steel was difficult to clean and the soft iron cleaned much better cleaning the fouling out of it.

So I've always kind of figured the reason why the method of using a cloth or leather patch around the ball to help it fit more tightly in the rifling , originated with somebody that had a ball that wouldn't fit into their rifling after they had their rifle re-rifled because the old rifling was wore out from shooting, and they simply tightened it up by wrapping a cloth or a leather patch around it, and that's how that method came to be used.

Remember that rifling, that made the big difference in being able to actually hit what you aimed at, was actually discovered by accident by someone who started out putting grooves down the barrel to take up the powder fouling, and then later someone determined that putting in spiral grooves would take up a lot more of the powder fouling and put off having to clean the gun,
And it was then determined that the spiral grooves gave the ball more accuracy and that before someone started using patched balls they put the bullet in and then pounded it into place deforming it so that when it was fired out it would be bigger and take up the rifling instead of just flying out without spinning

I suspect improper cleaning and general neglect was the primary cause for needing rifling recut.
Also remember that the old barrels were made of relatively soft iron, which even greased patches will cause a small amount of wear if the gun was shot a lot.

 

[smoothshooter]

I suspect improper cleaning and general neglect was the primary cause for needing rifling recut.
Also remember that the old barrels were made of relatively soft iron, which even greased patches will cause a small amount of wear if the gun was shot a lot.

 

[Black_Feather]

Personally I think it would take years or generations of use to see that much wear on the rifling. Lots of eastern muzzleloaders were re- bored to larger calibers heading west for big game. I suppose military rifles would have seen heavy wear. Any damage in that heavy amount would most likely be from improper cleaning and loading. Lots of crown damage from improper loading etc… There’s quite a bit on the subject here in this thread: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/wear-out-a-barrel.128686/

 

[sethwyo]

Freshenin' a barrel is what it was called in this area. The gentleman that built my flintlock has performed this operation on a number of muzzleloaders in his career.

Yes that term has made my mind click back, that's what I remember reading

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Original guns back in time we tools for survival and eating. They weren't used typically for plinking and target shooting like they are today. It would take forever with normal shooting to burn the rifling out of any muzzleloader with proper cleaning and maintenance. My original TC Hawken I've been shooting since 5 years old so 44 years now has an obscene number of rounds through it, its been handed down, around, loaned out, re-acquired so many times its insane. The rifling is still strong and guns still accurate. I will admit it NOW prefers a .018 patch vs before is liked .015. But if I had to put round count on it, i can say 20,000-25,000 shots. I could still take it to any shooting event and be competitive with it. But I got full customs I prefer. But I will loan it to a buddy so they can shoot and get interested instead.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

In Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in the Golden Age Kindig lists info from Leonard Reedy's journals which covers a period between 1819 to 1837. The number one repair he has listed is Freshen a barrel, 128 listings at $0.50. Number 2 was Steeling a hammer. The early gun barrels were made of iron simply because they didn't have a means of making high carbon steel until the mid 1800's. Berks County was a major supplier of gun barrels the first Iron works opened in Berk's county in 1716 and barrel mills followed soon after. The last barrel mill in Berks County closed in 1906 and was still making wrought iron barrels until the day it closed.

My first scratch built rifle back in the late 70's was a Douglas .40 caliber, loved those old Douglas barrels. Would not even guess how many thousand rounds were fired through that barrel. It was the only rifle I shot for many years and I was a very active shooter then. I generally shot somewhere every weekend, several multi day shoots, Territorial shoots, Friendship and usually practiced a couple times a week. Even after making other rifles it continued to be used more than any other. When first started it was using a .390 ball and .010 patch, When finally retired it was using a .400 ball and a .020 patch and it was pretty much a smoothbore and the accuracy was falling off. Still have a .45 Douglas barrel that has never been in a rifle yet. Those old Douglas barrels were so easy to work with. Currently working on a re-stock of a DGW barrel that I suspect was made for them by Douglas. Considering the steels being used in the barrels today I doubt I could shoot one out.

 

[reddogge]

I once owned an original half stock rifle in .32 made by James Bown & Son in Pittsburgh. The bore was worn out and rough and I wanted to shoot it so I had a gunsmith friend bore it out to .40 and rifle it. It was a great shooter.

 

[springfield art]

I have read that when a barrel muzzle got damaged, they'd simply saw off the end at the local blacksmith and get on with life.

 

[nhmoose]

Then same as today most bores are ruined by lack of care by the owners. Bought many new relics that were abused, and it did not take more than a year or so to do it.

Some make a full living reboring these rifles. Good barrels need to be cleaned before putting them away, but the common thing is to not do that.

 

[sethwyo]

Original guns back in time we tools for survival and eating. They weren't used typically for plinking and target shooting like they are today. It would take forever with normal shooting to burn the rifling out of any muzzleloader with proper cleaning and maintenance. My original TC Hawken I've been shooting since 5 years old so 44 years now has an obscene number of rounds through it, its been handed down, around, loaned out, re-acquired so many times its insane. The rifling is still strong and guns still accurate. I will admit it NOW prefers a .018 patch vs before is liked .015. But if I had to put round count on it, i can say 20,000-25,000 shots. I could still take it to any shooting event and be competitive with it. But I got full customs I prefer. But I will loan it to a buddy so they can shoot and get interested instead.

I will respectfully disagree with that,
There have been more than a few events where someone who was doing some excavating or archaeological work have found an area where somebody , from back in the black powder days, was doing quite a bit of target shooting .
they found a lot of bullets in a tree an into an embankment where somebody was doing quite a bit of target shooting at a tree or an embankment

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I will respectfully disagree with that,
There have been more than a few events where someone who was doing some excavating or archaeological work have found an area where somebody , from back in the black powder days, was doing quite a bit of target shooting .
they found a lot of bullets in a tree an into an embankment where somebody was doing quite a bit of target shooting at a tree or an embankment

Fair enough maybe it was one of them there chootin matches like in Davy Crockett live and learn live and learn.

 

[Pete G]

I will respectfully disagree with that,
There have been more than a few events where someone who was doing some excavating or archaeological work have found an area where somebody , from back in the black powder days, was doing quite a bit of target shooting .
they found a lot of bullets in a tree an into an embankment where somebody was doing quite a bit of target shooting at a tree or an embankment

There were no baseball games, basketball games, football games, etc. Shooting was just about the only available pastime

 

[Kansas Jake]

I’m inclined to agree with Ronaldroth49b that the reason for freshening often had to do with the iron barrels. Modern muzzleloaders have steel barrels which are much more resistant to wear.

 

[rich pierce]

We are seldom in the situations our forefathers were with their guns. We shoot, we go home to a dry house, and clean our guns. We are not towing a barge up the Missouri River and living on a boat in the rain like Lewis and Clark. Their guns needed re-cutting of the rifling during their trip. Why? They would shoot and reload because they had to. Then circumstances might not let them clean it and dry it for 2-3 days. Do this once or twice a month while handling your gun in foul weather. It will get to the point where it will barely load and will be shredding patches soon. Did they know how to clean and maintain rifles? Yes. Did they want to? Yes. They didn’t have a dry house and electric lights and yards of cleaning patches.

Typically when recutting rifling it will go up 1-2 calibers AT MOST before it’s done. A .50 will become a .51. Possibly a .52. It would take 6 days to go from .50 to .54 by re-rifling. It’s an entirely different process than Bobby Hoyt and others do. They drill out the rifling, bore it to the desired new size which must be much larger to get all the rifling out, team it, and rifle it like it’s a newly bored barrel.