Round Ball or Conical

[Infantryboots]

What thought process does a hunter goes through to decide if he wants to shoot round ball or conical.

 

[rabjr]

Probably range. What ranges you normally shoot deer at? I really need a scope to shoot beyond 75 yards now so I keep my shots or try to, under that. My avg shot at deer is probably 40 yards so a roundball works just fine for me. Really no need for a conical at the ranges I am shooting now.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Caliber, Range expected to shoot at deer, gunsights being use, and the accuracy of the chosen firearm, in that order. A smoothbore is only going to shoot RB accurately,and then not much further in most guns past 70 yards. If you shoot most of your deer at 50 yards or less, as I do, there is no need for scope sights, or conicals. In rifles, the ROT, and the depth of the rifling is going to determine if the barrel was designed to shoot Round Balls, or, Conicals, or can shoot both. A ,40 caliber rifle, although very accurate, should not be used on deer much over 100 yards, and half that if you want to have a hole though both sides of a large deer. A .45 caliber rifle will completely penetrate a deer's chest out to 75 yards reliably. A .50 will do it at 100 yds;, while a .54 will do it out to 130 yds. Above the .54, almost all caliber guns shoot a heavy enough lead round ball to completely penetrate a deer chest as far as you can hit them. The draw back is that the recoil of the charges needed to flatten the trajectory enough to guarantee hits beyond 100 yds is hard on the shooter, and hurts his abilit to accurately aim and hold the sights on target. So, even when the gun will kill at many times the distance, a large bore rifle may be restricted by other factors to be used at 100 yds. or less. At .54 caliber and above, Caliber ceases to be a real concern, and the emphasis has to be on the likely range where you will be taking a shot at the deer. ACcuracy is the name of the game.

Finally, remember that a lead round ball will expand at even very low velocities, where concicals rarely expand at all before penetrating the deer, simply because the tissues and bones in a deer are quite thin, and do not offer much resistance. Report after report is made here annually by hunters who have taken deer with both RB and Conicals, and the hunters swear they are going to use only RB loads from now on. For deer, the RB is just about the perfect choice for the MLer hunter, considering open sights, and the slow rate of twist designed to shoot RBs that are in most traditional (sidelock percussion or flint) rifles. :thumbsup:

 

[xia_emperor]

great info! :bow:

 

[PGTMG]

Agreeing with what all said above me. I think you have to look at what is "your goal" is.

When I found my .40 PRB light for some of the game I wanted to pursue. I researched conical rounds for .40 but realized I wanted to hunt only with PRB.
So “Hunting all with patched round ball” as my criteria I researched a ball that be capable to take larger game. Then everything became easier.

:v

 

[roundball]

What thought process does a hunter goes through to decide if he wants to shoot round ball or conical.

If a hunter has the resources to match a caliber size round ball to the game he's after, IMO the round ball is always the most traditional choice.
However, sometimes a hunter may only have a particular caliber at his dispoal...ie: a .50cal ML which would be excellent for woods deer with its .180grn PRB...but wanted to go moose hunting...the .50cal can bring a little more to the moose table by using a heavier .50cal conical.

While we all know that deer have been killed with the lowly .22cal long rifle, .32/.36/.40cal PRBs are usually considered small game calibers, with the .45cal and up usually thought of as calibers for larger game. And even at that with it's light 128grn ball the .45cal still requires some attention to distance with most experienced hunters usually holding 75yds as the outside rule of thumb for it.

IMO the .45cal is like the .243 of muzzleloaders for big game...has the lowest energy level and lacks mass to punch through big bones, whereas the .50cal PRB is more like the .30-30 of muzzleloaders carrying about 40% more weight than the smallish .45cal ball...the .54cal like the .30-06, the .58cal like the .300mag, etc...you get the idea.

 

[Idaho Ron]

What thought process does a hunter goes through to decide if he wants to shoot round ball or conical.

For me I would say that the animal I am hunting is the first thing I think about. The minimum rifle size and load that will work for a Southeastern White tail is not going to work for an Alaskan Moose. Then as Swamprat said

Probably range. What ranges you normally shoot deer at?

That is an important factor.

In my experience Paul was right on with most of what he said. The only thing I would add is to his statement,

Finally, remember that a lead round ball will expand at even very low velocities, where concicals rarely expand at all before penetrating the deer, simply because the tissues and bones in a deer are quite thin, and do not offer much resistance.

In my experience I have found that a conical WILL expand on deer sized game if it is made out of pure soft lead. I fully trust a conical at any range to do the job I need it to. Also a PRB that is poured out of Wheel Weights will NOT expand like a PRB made out of pure soft lead. With about anything there are exceptions to about any rule.
One last thought on the subject of choosing the projectile. If the game you hunt is dangerous or if there are dangerous animals in the area you are hunting. It might be overkill to hunt White tails in Eastern Idaho with a 460 gr Conical. But since that area has Grizzlys, and Wolves, I would opt for the bullet that gives me the most whomp.
Ron

 

[BS]

What thought process does a hunter goes through to decide if he wants to shoot round ball or conical.

What style of gun are you looking at, and what size game?

and Happy Birthday
:grin:

 

[tg]

Probably range along with that goes whether they are going to hunt traditional or not, there are few traditional type conicals available.

 

[410-er]

If I need to shoot a conical,I'll just grab a bigger muzzy instead. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I like Roundball's analogy very much. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

Lots of sensible comments here. For me, range is the big deal. If I was somewhere that required shooting past 100 yards, I'd be shooting conicals exclusively. But fortunately for me I hunt mostly where ranges are under 100 yards. It's fortunate because my old eyes just aren't good enough for the long stuff too.

Another factor not mentioned. In order to fully realize that long range potential, conicals have to be heavy and snorted up pretty good to flatten trajectory some. And those loads hurt. Shooting lots of them for practice, especially prone or rested like you'll be taking long shots, just isn't fun for me.

Round balls do just fine for me at the ranges I hunt. And I'm hunting serious bear country, so bigger is better in my book. We've got a brown bear around now that forgot to den up and is hanging around houses, to tell you how serious the bear country is. If I'm worried about bears in a particular location, I'm more likely to go somewhere else or stay home. But I gotta say I feel a lot more comfortable now packing a 58 cal rather than my 54. And I'd be even happier packing a 62 or a 69.

I carried my slow twist 50 with RBs this year simply because I wanted to use it. But I weenied out on a couple of hunts and went home. If I was using only a 50, I'd swap it out for a faster twist and switch to conicals, even if I was still keeping my shots well under 100.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with an extended magazine full of slugs, is a serious comfort in Bear Country, no? I agree with what you say about conicals, and our old eyes. I have had to put scopes on guns I never thought I would ever need to glass, simply because of old eyes. Where did I get those? :rotf: :rotf: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[rdillion]

I know what you mean about losing those young eyes. I'm wearing my first pair of bi-focals. I'll probably have to put a wider front sight on my 40cal flinter because I can't see the dang thing anymore.
:shocked2: :cursing: :shake:

 

[longcruise]

I know what you mean about losing those young eyes. I'm wearing my first pair of bi-focals.

Ha! Wait till you go to trifocals :shocked2:

It gets really strange when shooting modern stuff with a scope and you accidently look through the scope with the wrong lens. :haha:

BTW, have you fallen down any stairs yet?

 

[rdillion]

:cursing: Yes I have. My own back door. Was on my way to work and broke my thermos in the process.

 

[Headhunter]

You really need to know the twist of the barrel also.

With a 1-66 or 1-70, there ain't much choice....The patched round ball.

I have never shot a conical in the my 30 years of muzzleloading. Never seen the need.

Headhunter

 

[Stumpkiller]

What thought process does a hunter goes through to decide if he wants to shoot round ball or conical.

That is also linked to why you want to take up muzzleloading in the first place. If you want to explore pre-U.S. Civil War historical weapons and try some "experimental archeology" then a round ball would likely be the way to go.

As this is the hunting section we'll say it's about game animals - so, as mentioned, range is a big decider. I have no intentions of scoping a muzzleloader, so my range is under 80 yards for the most part anyway as that's as good as I am with iron-sights now (used to was I was better).

Men have taken cape buffalo, lion, tiger and elephant with round balls. Big, honkin round balls! So, range is the limiter more than killing power.

Round balls add sport to the kill. Conicals add kill to the sport. :wink:

 

[buttonbuck]

All of the 6 deer I have taken with muzzleloaders have been with conical bullets (hollow point buffalo bullets and 400 grain remingtons both have hollow points and a concave base) only 2 stayed in the critter one on the first I shot (a wounded buttonbuck) I really wanted the big doe he was with but I saw him limping so I did the right thing, shot him through the front of the chest and found it under the hide on the left side. The second was an antlered buck shot him behind one shoulder, it went through the back side of the opposite shoulder in cartlidge and mushroomed up under the hide, it expanded from a .54 cal to about 80 cal as I recall, that slug is now part of an ingot. I did harvest a squirrel with a 32 roundball went in the head and was under the hide near the opposite shoulder about dime size. I intend to switch to roundball as soon as I shoot up these conicals and work up a good hunting load for the 54 renegade. It just feels better to use a lead roundball preferably one I have cast this is my goal for next years season.

 

[Infantryboots]

BS,
I'm looking to buy a traditional and hunting Whitetail