Round Ball paper cartridges in rifle-musket?

[Stantheman86]

I briefly experimented with these last summer, but didn't go beyond 5 or 6 rounds. Accuracy was good at 50 yards out of my Zoli Buffalo Hunter , with .570 balls and a thin paper cartridge.

.562 Round Ball in a 3M masking paper cartridge. Slips in nice but not sloppy into my Armi Sport CS Richmond bore.

I'm thinking , a hot dip of the bottom half of the ball into SPG lube or rub with Lanolin .

They work in Smoothbores, maybe accuracy might be good? The ball should bump up and take the paper patching. If they slip down a clean bore the same as my .69 Smoothbores, getting 40-50 of these through with no cleaning should be no problem. The shallow rifling and slow twist should , in theory, put these into a decent group.

These might not have been used in .58 caliber in the "period" but they're cheap to make and fun. I'm thinking in addition to a load out of Minie cartridges I'll pack a few of these for my next range trip .

 

[Treestalker]

Thank you, Stan! I have just completed making a Buffalo hunter out of my Zouave, and am also interested in RB paper cartridge accuracy. I trimmed the barrel to 26" and retained the two barrel bands like your gun seems to exhibit. How long is your barrel and please advise on accuracy with the .570 RB cartridge? By the way, I once saw in a manual years ago the entire area of the cartridge covering the ball was dipped in lube. Good luck with your endeavor, and realize you're not the only 'psycho' out there seeking a better path!

 

[Stantheman86]

I have the Zoli Buffalo Hunter that came "pre sporterized" I think it's a 26-ish barrel.

I used blank newspaper for the cartridge , no lube and a .570 ball, worked fine for 5 or 6 shots , it was as accurate as a regular linen patched ball.

In effect we're making a "paper patched ball" much like a paper patched bullet.

My fear is that .570 is too tight and the fouling will get a ball stuck, since the lubed paper doesn't do as good a job wiping the bore as a cotton ball patch.

I had played with the idea of making cartridges similar to the Mississippi's. 54 round ball cartridge with a patch tied around the ball but I would need a lube that wouldn't dry out or contaminate the powder charge. A dry patch around the ball doesn't seem like it would be good for very many shots. Maybe a hot dip would work.

But, if "paper patching" works just as well , it is a far simpler option.

I would think that at some point back in the original period someone had to be doing this in rifled weapons. It just seems so stupid simple, to carry over the smoothbore type cartridge into the rifled weapons.

The Murphys Muskets guy uses .69 round ball cartridges in a rifled 1842 Musket , loaded the same way as a smoothbore. I'll have to rewatch it to see what kind of accuracy he got.

If it works in Smoothbores I feel it has to work, at least to produce usable accuracy , in a Minie rifle.

 

[Grenadier1758]

My unit uses paper cartridge wrapped round balls for our woods walk shooting of our land pattern muskets. We use onion paper for the wrap and no lubrication. I have learned that if I spit on the ball as I load the paper cartridge, the ball loads much easier than my team mates who don't spit on the ball. That bit of moisture helps to soften the fouling during loading and makes repeated firing much easier. I also helps to use a damp ball of tow on a string to remove some fouling. One needs all the help one can get to keep firing during some of these woods walks.

 

[Rat]

I have experimented with paper cartridges in my Plain's Pistol with excellent results. I use paper bag paper. Shoots them very accurately. I have not shot a long string of shots with them, so I don't know how they load when the fouling gets real heavy. My purpose with them is for quick repeat shots, in the field, in an "emergency", such as getting attacked by that pack of wolves that are out to get me. Yes, they seem to be almost as accurate as a patched ball. I have not tried dipping the ball-portion of the cartridge in hot bee's wax, but I think that would be a good thing. Personally I would avoid lube, as it might migrate up the paper and contaminate the powder. Keep yer powder dry!

Now in my Brown Bess musket, I keep a very loose fit, and carry them for the same purpose, that nasty pack of wolves. However, in the Bess they are not as accurate as patched ball. I made some for my Jeager, (.62") for the same purpose, but have not got around to trying them. However, I think they will work quite well 50 yards and under, although I would not be surprised if they do much better than that.

But again, from the rifled barrel of my pistol, they work great, and are accurate.

 

[Stantheman86]

I have a .54 Plains pistol, using cartridges would be really fun in that.

Pure anhydrous Lanolin is one of my new favorite things , it's a gel that doesn't dry out. I've used it with great results on .69 round ball cartridges, it never migrates and I've had loaded cartridges sit for 3 days. It keeps the fouling "wet" , I fired 50 .648 balls in cartridges through my 1816 Springfield and I probably could have kept going. No wiping. The Lanolin kept the fouling basically a fine black watery substance in the bore vs a hard, crusty bore obstruction. The rod and my hands were covered in watery black.

Lanolin wouldn't translate well to a bullet lube but makes an excellent paper lube. It's a gel so it won't contaminate powder even if it touched it.

I think I'll try some .648's wrapped in a Muslin tied patch with a Lanolin lube.

 

[Rat]

I shall await the results. Perhaps next week I could dip the ball portion of those .62's I made, in bee's wax, and see what results I get. However, probably won't fire enough to really make any good observations. Can't hurt though!

Darn, just cast up a bunch of .690's for my Bess, then discovered I'm about out of 1fg. Hope I can find some in the nearest town/city, as I wanted to do some experimenting and shooting with it.

 

[Stantheman86]

I have bunches and I mean, like 500 or more .570 round balls......I can't set up to cast where I live so the Hornady swaged .570's are still like $8 per 50 if you online price shop. Midway is a good source for common sized swaged balls.

I'm also going to try .570s , masking paper is .003 thick, so a double wrap cartridge will give a .576 patched ball. Should be easy enough to make a pattern for a trapezoidal cartridge that wraps a .570 twice.

Pounding patched balls down a bore is a no-go for me, so if these don't glide down after several shots, experiment over .

This is half the fun for me, playing with stuff like this.

I found someone selling a "Civil War .58 round ball cartridge " online, with a string choked ball similar to what I made so someone must have used them.

 

[Rat]

I too, love playing with stuff like this.

Well again, judging from my Plains Pistol, they will/can shoot quite well. For patch thickness, with my paper bag paper, I just adjust the number of wraps, or size of the cut paper, to get the right thickness. I don't bother with a trapezoidal shape, just cut them square. Just make a simple tube.

The other day it was too hot for casting in the house, had both air conditioners going which just keeps the house at 70 degrees. Any cooking, or too many lights, or too many room doors open, or too much coming and going/inside outside, (like when the grandkids are here) and the temp goes up.

So, I got out my old one burner coleman stove, went outside and tried that. Worked good and I just used a minimum of "stuff", just the mould, my frying pan melting pot, dipper, and a spoon and container for slag. Just sat on a stool and was not uncomfortable. My point is, maybe one could take something like that, pack it in the car or truck and find a park or out of the way place and cast outside on a nice day. ??

 

[Stantheman86]

I thought about just setting up a cheap Lee pot on my little front porch , in rural PA you can get them used for like 20 bucks.

My property manager likes me because I pay my rent and mow my lawn so I'm sure they won't throw a fit.

I ordered a yard of lightweight Muslin to try making "Mississippi " cartridges along with using paper and .562 balls.

I have successfully used "musket wadding" in Smoothbores by simply dropping a ball down and seating a wad of paper over it , but don't know if this would translate to a rifled bore.

 

[Rat]

No, don't think that (musket style) would translate at all. !!! Wouldn't hurt anything...including the target.

For sure, hard to imagine anyone complaining about casting outside. I can see where doing it in the kitchen (my preferred place) might spook the ill-informed.