round ball pushing back out

[tacotime]

Ruger Old Army. Cylinder with powder, 35 to 40 grains Pyrodex, lubed felt wad, rammed, .457 round ball wants to come back out, several times sometimes, even above the rim. Proper seatin with this load seats well below the rim. Balls had been tumbled in Alox.

But the last set was not lubed and one or more wanted to come out anyway.

Is the Alox to blame?

Cone of the ram is kind of rough. That may be gripping the ball a bit and pulling out.

Ideas?

Thanks.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

What are the cylinder hole diameters?

What are the diameter of the balls. The balls seem to small. Ruger has good tolorance in general.

 

[tacotime]

.457 are the recommended balls. Cylinders not measured yet, but I heard Ruger was pretty accurate on the cylinder on these guns.

Usually shaves a little lead ring when rammed.

 

[M. De Land]

My guess is you guessed right about the pre- lubed balls. Try some without the lube and see if they still back out. MD

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I am not an expert but I do not see why you need a wad and a lubed ball.

If your loading 40gr then forget the wad and just load powder and ball.

You seem to know the answer you just have not yet put it to practice.

Debur your ram rod, unlube your balls and load on wad if you want your ball at Max distance. If 40gr keeps it far enough out then lubber the balls and put on top of powder.

What is the Max load a Ruger will hold and still seat the ball.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I always heard that alox and black powder is not a good mix.

I never had 457 balls back out, even over full loads of 3ffg Goex. I lube over top the balls, and use on wad.

 

[Dphar]

You are compressing the wad and its rebounding enough to move the ball.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Alox and BP fouling is a bad mix. I would get some SPG Bullet Lube.
SPG is sold in Cabela's at least in Billings MT and is the standard for the BPCR bullet lubes. BECAUSE Alox was so poor for this.

Dan

 

[George T.]

I am not sure how a ball tight enough to shave a ring of lead can be backed out. I assume that your load is within the Ruger recomendations. You are going to have to reduce your powder charge or leave out the felt was to give more room. This is a mystery to me! Geo. T.

 

Question, are you the original owner? Or did you buy this revolver used?

Does the finish inside the chambers of the cylinder match that of the outside? Have to wonder if the chambers were either reamed or honed to a different size.

I have heard of some shooters doing this as a way to improve accuracy.

 

[RADeO]

You are compressing the wad and its rebounding enough to move the ball.

Dan

This has been my experience too.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You are compressing the wad and its rebounding enough to move the ball.

Dan

Many years ago I thought the same thing--until I loaded 52 grains of 3Fg Goex, a lubed wonder-wad and a .454 Hornady into my Uberti Walker. Even 55 grain charges don't make the balls jump outta the chambers under recoil, and you have to really lean on the loading lever and compress the charge & wad to get those balls down under the surface of the cylinder face.

My take on this (and I've experienced this first-hand) is that the rammer is cut to too sharp of an edge and is pulling the balls slightly out of the chambers when the rammer is withdrawn. I had a 1860 Uberti Colt Army do this, especially in cold weather. Sometimes the balls would stick to the rammer as I withdrew it. By letting a friend take a couple thousandth's off the edge of the rammer, the entire problem went away, and I only used 27 grains of powder in the 1860 Army.

If the revolver hasn't been altered the chambers should work fine with .457 balls (UNLUBED)right outta the box. Either use a wonder-wad underneath the ball or some lube over the ball, but NEVER LUBE THE BALLS THEMSELVES, as that is just asking for trouble. Believe it or not, I like to use older balls with a little oxidation on them, as they "grab" the cylinder walls even better than a "perfect" ball, and I have to do half of my shooting from 50 yards away from the target for the NRA Qualification Program.

Hope this helps and let me know if I can be of any more help.

Dave
NRA Distinguished Expert ML Pistol

 

[tacotime]

The gun was used but I don't think the chambers were reamed. They are still shaving lead. I need to measure to be sure though I guess.

Loads were within specs. Wad was felt with Wonderlube.

Alox tumbling to be deleted then. Ram to be polished. As for lube over the ball, I have Wonderlube liquid, Bore Butter, and Crisco. Which of these is best over the ball?

Thanks.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

crisco works well, except in hot weather. I use white cup grease from the auto supply store. Costs about $3.00 a pound, lasts forever. Doesn't melt like Crisco in warm weather. Stays in place pretty well. Seems to be about the same consistency as the Blue and Gray "Pistol Patch" that I used for decades. Normally, I stay away from petroleum products and black powder, but I don't think revolvers develop the heat that can cook petroleum products to the bore. Been using it for a year now, with no problem. Fired over 100 shots in one day without cleaning.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

The gun was used but I don't think the chambers were reamed. They are still shaving lead. I need to measure to be sure though I guess.

Loads were within specs. Wad was felt with Wonderlube.

Alox tumbling to be deleted then. Ram to be polished. As for lube over the ball, I have Wonderlube liquid, Bore Butter, and Crisco. Which of these is best over the ball?

Thanks.

Generally it is excepted in the sport to do either one or the other, but never BOTH! I only use the pre-lubed wonder-wads, and in the dryness of the winter, I rub a little more wonderlube into each wad and then store them in a 35mm film canister. If you're using a lubed wad over the powder, no lube at all is required on top of the ball. If no wad is used, then whatever you have that's slimy will work, and Crisco has been used for eons. I don't like the slimy ooze getting all over everything, including the revolver's grips. This can be an UNSAFE CONDITION, so I just use the wads and thereby avoid this problem before it rears it's ugly head!

If you're shavin' lead upon ramming, then don't bother measuring the chambers--just stop using lubrication to a factor of 3X (Alox tumbling) and pick either wads OR slime over-the-ball :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

"I have Wonderlube liquid, Bore Butter, and Crisco. Which of these is best over the ball?"

Depends on where you shoot.

Crisco may work fine in Michigan in the winter but is not worth a hoot in Texas when it's 105 in the shade.

You have to consider the ambient temperature and how runny your lube is going to be at that temp.

Most folks make their own, I use a combination of Gulf Wax or Bee's wax, Mineral Oil and Vasoline and make it for winter and summer use.

 

[M. De Land]

I turned a hemisphere in all my revolver loading rammers. Just take them apart, chuck them in a lathe and use a .500 ball milling cutter, cut to clean metal, bit of sand paper and your done.
I doubt if you shorten it much more than a .050 to clean it up.
This has the added benefit of leaving the ball tops round and not deformed as well. MD

 

[tacotime]

Looks like the Alox was the issue. Retried all the same except dry balls, and no back out. Thanks.

 

[crockett]

A while back (WV Hillbilly?) there was a post on balls backing out and causing a chain firing. I'm wondering if using Crisco and having greasy fingers might actually lube the balls without the shooter realizing it. Another chain fire issue- maybe.

 

[Shoeless]

I have never heard of tumbling round balls. I use Oxyokes over powder with 454 balls in Ubertis and never had an issue backing out or chain fires....