You guys have got me thinking about changing from maxi-balls to round balls and patches, at least at the range. I am thinking I will still hunt with maxi-balls just because that is what I am comfortable with and for the re-load speed. Anyway, what would be the comparable RB and charge to a 430 grain maxi-ball and 90 grains pyrodex. I would probably switch to black powder after I use up the pyrodex and triple se7ven on hand. How comparable is the performance between RB and maxi-ball. Would I need to re-site in the gun when switching between the two? Or is the difference minimal?
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round ball vs. maxi-ball
- Thread starter sneakon
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First off, I assume you are shooting a .54 caliber (because of the maxiball's weight) so I will add my thoughts based on that assumption...
The maxiball weighs 430 grains, a .535 round ball weighs 220 grains, a little more than half the weight of the maxi... (51.1% the weight)
For the same powder charge in both, the round ball will shoot much higher than the maxiball due to it's less mass, faster velocity too...
To get the round ball to shoot where the maxiball shoots at a 90 grain load (without readjusting your sights) I would cut the powder charge in half, since the weight of the projectile is also roughly half...
IMO, 45 grains of pyrodex with a patched 220 grain round ball will put you on the same area on a target as 90 grains of pyrodex with a 430 grain maxiball...
I could be wrong, but the numbers suggest this will be close enough to work without readjusting your sight...
The maxiball weighs 430 grains, a .535 round ball weighs 220 grains, a little more than half the weight of the maxi... (51.1% the weight)
For the same powder charge in both, the round ball will shoot much higher than the maxiball due to it's less mass, faster velocity too...
To get the round ball to shoot where the maxiball shoots at a 90 grain load (without readjusting your sights) I would cut the powder charge in half, since the weight of the projectile is also roughly half...
IMO, 45 grains of pyrodex with a patched 220 grain round ball will put you on the same area on a target as 90 grains of pyrodex with a 430 grain maxiball...
I could be wrong, but the numbers suggest this will be close enough to work without readjusting your sight...
Guest
In my experience, rifles sighted in for PRB will shoot a little low with conicals, the difference is small. Usually if you are sighted in for a 6:00 hold your maxi-ball will hit at 6:00. May be others have had different experiences than I have, but this is mine.
Hey Road dog, i see ya shaved for summer. :haha: :haha: Much better. ::
Hello Sneakon,
Musketman and Roaddog are on. I will add something that may help too. Like musketman I am assuming you are shooting a .54 cal. and something like a T/C with a middle of the road twist(1:48). I have never been able to get my T/C Renegade in .54 to shoot maxi balls accuratly. I have taken a deer with maxi balls with that gun at 60 yards, but the kill zone for vitals on a deer is around 8 to 10 inches in diameter. My gun prefers the roundballs and is a lot more accuarte. I shoot 60 grains at the range of Goex and when hunting I now use 80 grains and a .535 patched round ball with .018 pillow ticking. 80 grains of Goex puts a 220 grain ball all the way through a deer at 75 yards. If you keep expermenting with the roundballs and get a load worked up I bet your gun will be more accurate. I am sure there are guys out there that have a T/C in 1:48 that love maxi balls, however my paticular gun shoots best with roundballs.
Doc Will
Keep Yer Powder Dry
Musketman and Roaddog are on. I will add something that may help too. Like musketman I am assuming you are shooting a .54 cal. and something like a T/C with a middle of the road twist(1:48). I have never been able to get my T/C Renegade in .54 to shoot maxi balls accuratly. I have taken a deer with maxi balls with that gun at 60 yards, but the kill zone for vitals on a deer is around 8 to 10 inches in diameter. My gun prefers the roundballs and is a lot more accuarte. I shoot 60 grains at the range of Goex and when hunting I now use 80 grains and a .535 patched round ball with .018 pillow ticking. 80 grains of Goex puts a 220 grain ball all the way through a deer at 75 yards. If you keep expermenting with the roundballs and get a load worked up I bet your gun will be more accurate. I am sure there are guys out there that have a T/C in 1:48 that love maxi balls, however my paticular gun shoots best with roundballs.
Doc Will
Keep Yer Powder Dry
Good assumptions. I am shooting a T/C Hawken .54 cal. with a 1 in 48 twist. Elk hunting is the other reason for staying with the 430 maxi-ball. I'm thinking a .535 round ball may not have the mass needed for elk.
I like the idea of lower powder loads at the range. I also am looking forward to the suggested experimentation with different loads. Still working on getting the fouling cleaned up, but was happy with my groups at 100 yds last weekend.
Thank you all for the help. This is fun.
I like the idea of lower powder loads at the range. I also am looking forward to the suggested experimentation with different loads. Still working on getting the fouling cleaned up, but was happy with my groups at 100 yds last weekend.
Thank you all for the help. This is fun.
Guest
A 54 cal. round ball over 100 grs. of FFg has plenty "oomph" for elk inside 100 yards.
My suspiscion is that your round ball load, if using the same powder charge, will shoot lower than your maxi-ball load. Generally this is true but not always, (is anything an "always" in the study of ballistics in shoulder arms or handguns?). The reason being that as the round ball is travelling considerably faster than the maxi-ball it has less barrel time. Thus the ball will leave the muzzle at a lower point in the arc of the muzzle as it rises during recoil, thereby printing lower on the target. Elmer Keith wrote of this effect decades ago
It is often said that the 44 Spl. and the 375 H&H are two of very few cartridges which generally place different loads in relatively the same group. Obviously the extreme upper and lower end loads rarely shoot to the same POI, even in those two cartridges. My experiments and experience tend to indicate that indeed those two cartridges do shoot different loads close together, much more so than other cartridges.
Vic
My suspiscion is that your round ball load, if using the same powder charge, will shoot lower than your maxi-ball load. Generally this is true but not always, (is anything an "always" in the study of ballistics in shoulder arms or handguns?). The reason being that as the round ball is travelling considerably faster than the maxi-ball it has less barrel time. Thus the ball will leave the muzzle at a lower point in the arc of the muzzle as it rises during recoil, thereby printing lower on the target. Elmer Keith wrote of this effect decades ago
It is often said that the 44 Spl. and the 375 H&H are two of very few cartridges which generally place different loads in relatively the same group. Obviously the extreme upper and lower end loads rarely shoot to the same POI, even in those two cartridges. My experiments and experience tend to indicate that indeed those two cartridges do shoot different loads close together, much more so than other cartridges.
Vic
Probably talkin apples / oranges here, but it may show just how tempermental these things can get.
In my 1:66, .45 cal. I use a variety of load combos.
Maxi's with 70 gr. 3Fg print nice.
A .445 Hornady swaged prints so close to the same with ticking on the same load may as well say identicle.
However, a .440 Hornady swaged w/ tick patch shoots less than half the group size with 30 Gr. 3 Fg and 3" lower at 75 yds.
But, a .445 RB from wheel weights with with 65 gr. prints just a bit more than the .440 hornady loads. A .440 ww is out of sight! Can't get them to stay on the paper at all in any load.
I find no logic as to why these loads act like they do (and gave up trying) and just accept them as "workable loads".
The .440 swaged w 30 gr. is a very enjoyable "punch paper all day" load and works on squirrels good too.
The .445 WW's are nice on woodchucks (let 'em die in their hole) load. Probably be good on yotes too and it will take swamp deer (but I feel much better when I know I can stick 'em in the "boiler room" - no expansion).
The Maxi load is my favorite deer load. Heavy enough and stout enough to punch through some invisible brush and still get the job done when up close.
In my 1:66, .45 cal. I use a variety of load combos.
Maxi's with 70 gr. 3Fg print nice.
A .445 Hornady swaged prints so close to the same with ticking on the same load may as well say identicle.
However, a .440 Hornady swaged w/ tick patch shoots less than half the group size with 30 Gr. 3 Fg and 3" lower at 75 yds.
But, a .445 RB from wheel weights with with 65 gr. prints just a bit more than the .440 hornady loads. A .440 ww is out of sight! Can't get them to stay on the paper at all in any load.
I find no logic as to why these loads act like they do (and gave up trying) and just accept them as "workable loads".
The .440 swaged w 30 gr. is a very enjoyable "punch paper all day" load and works on squirrels good too.
The .445 WW's are nice on woodchucks (let 'em die in their hole) load. Probably be good on yotes too and it will take swamp deer (but I feel much better when I know I can stick 'em in the "boiler room" - no expansion).
The Maxi load is my favorite deer load. Heavy enough and stout enough to punch through some invisible brush and still get the job done when up close.
