ROUNDBALL ENERGY

[Twowithone]

Does anyone have a table or something that shows say foe a 50 cal 490 roundball.the velocities at different ranges and I dont know the correct word for it but the energy or whatever it is to harvest a deer at 100 yds and would you take a shot at 100 yds. This knucklehead I know got one of those other rifles has 6 words in the beginning of it. It pertains to our hunting seasons. Thank you all :thumbsup:

 

[captaincaveman]

well I ain't got no fancy figurin' tables or nuttin like that, but I do have a few deer that figured my .50 was enough. 3 of them were between 90 and 125 yards.

Josh

 

[Zonie]

Here is some information from the Lyman Black Powder Handbook. It is for a .490 ball shot from a 28 inch barrel with a 1:48 twist.
The powder it is using is GOEX FFg and it is giving the powder load, muzzle velocity and 100 yard velocity plus 100 yard emergy:

70 grain, 1471fps, 951fps, 355 ft.lb
80 grain, 1573fps, 980fps, 378 ft.lb
90 grain, 1651fps, 1004fps, 396 ft.lb
100 grain, 1729fps, 1029 fps, 416 ft.lb

zonie

 

[tg]

One thing to consider is that the energy or a RB and 100 yds and the energy of a .30 cal modern bullet at 100 yds is not apples and oranges as far as killing capabilites these are two types of projectiles that react and cause different types of damage...it is kind of like comparing the "energy" of a hunting broadhead to that of a 300 Winchester to see which will kill an Elk better.

 

[JiminTexas]

What is your powder charge? external balistics are a function of how fast,and the weight of, the projectile is sent from the barrel. That, of course will depend on what powder charge you put into it.

 

[DanChamberlain]

The "ball" has a profile that I believe translates to greater effect at reasonable velocities than does a projectile with a sharper ogive. Take the lowly .36 caliber Navy pistol. It was considered serious social medicine in its day and was used to good effect despite having paper ballistics similar to the .32 auto pistol.

At speed, the round shape of the ball is almost the same as if it were a flat faced projectile and it smacks! With my .36 long rifle, I cannot photograph a squirrel for an article unless I hide the point of impact. If it's the head, the head is in essence obliterated and that is with 20 grains of powder!

We can look at bullet weight and velocity and figure its energy, but we cannot figure its effect. Only the target can do that. I've read many people who were dissatisfied with the performance of a ball, particularly in calibers below .54 and I can't comment on that because I've never used one on big game below .54. I can say I once witnessed a .58 caliber ball strike a nice sized doe at 70 yards in a classic broadside shot through the ribs and the effect was instantaneous! Most double lung shots with projectiles cause deer to run a ways, but this doe dropped and the only thing left in the air was a puff of hair. That ball was probably only moving 800 to 900 fps at that range and I'm certain it would have gone through another deer if one had been standing behind the first.

Nuttin wrong with ball.

Dan

 

[barebackjack]

I second Dan on that one.

I shot a doe with my .54 GPR this year at 20 yards broadside, smacked ribs on both sides of her. I noticed a "poof" on the ground in the background about 100 yards beyond her. Went to investigate....sure enough, nice little foot long furrow in the dirt where the ball hit.

 

[Headhunter]

A man has to BELIEVE in the patched round ball.

They WORK!

HH

 

[Enfield1]

I do not know if you are trying to work up a good hunting load or not. I was fortunate enough to harvest a buck this past season with a flintlock. I was using my Traditions .50 Pennsylvania Rifle. My load of a Speer .490 Roundball over a .10 oxyok wonder patch over 70 grains of Goex 2FG powder passed completely through the deer at about 25 yards. I have to tell you that this surprized me. I though that this load would be adequate, but I did not know that it would have this much energy. I would feel comfortable with this load for deer out to about 50 yards. Take care and keep 'em in the 10 ring.

 

[paulvallandigham]

That load will penetrate a deer at well beyond 100 yds for the same POI.

 

[barebackjack]

The doe I killed this year was my first with a MLer. Ive always known a roundball could do the job, but I heard alot of stories about finding the mushroomed ball just under the skin on the opposite side, so I kinda expected that. I definatly did not think the ball would travel almost 100 yards after passing through the animal with enough energy to probably kill another.

 

[jdixon]

Try this link - contains a ballistic calculator. Ballistic coefficient of a roundball is .068 I believe - check a Lyman manual if you have one to be certain. Link -[url] http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm[/url]

 

[renovato]

I wouldn't worry too much about the energy aspect of it. At the velocities of muzzleloaders, tissue damage is what does the killin' and a round ball pokes a pretty big hole and flattens out as it goes through. A round ball doesn't look good when it comes to paper numbers, but it's a solid performer on game just the same.

 

[Zonie]

This is from a post I made back in 2002 and I think it may be of interest to some of you:


I don't recall who it was, but a long time ago someone came up with a formula for killing power which boiled down to Velocity X bullet weight X Caliber/100. This really is type of Momentum X Bullet Diameter/100. The answer is not in any real units, it is just for a comparison.
I think the originator used a unit called KP for killing power and the reason he came up with the formula was because he felt the Foot/Lb Formula placed too much emphasis on velocity (which is squared in those calculations). (for a close approximation the formula for Muzzle Energy in Foot Pounds is Velocity X Velocity X bullet weight in grains /450000.)

If I apply the KP formula with a .50 Caliber, 185 grain PRB at 1700 FPS
it works out to be .490 X 185 X 1700 /100 = 1416.1

for a .54 caliber 230 grain PRB at 1600 FPS we have
.53 X 230 X 1600 / 100 = 1950.4

for a .30-30 with a 150 grain bullet at 2320 FPS we have
.30 X 150 X 2300 / 100 = 1035.0

for a .30-06 with a 180 grain bullet at 2740 FPS we have
.30 X 180 X 2740 / 100 = 1479.6

As to why the Army kept the old .45ACP we have
.45 X 230 X 900 /100 = 931.5

A 9MM Luger = 125 X .357 X 1145 / 100 = 510.9

You can see why his idea didn't catch on with the High Power Rifle Shooters but IMHO I think some of this idea helps explain why Black Powder guns are such effective hunting tools and why your deer went down like it was hit by a freight train.
Just Jim Keep Your Eyes Peeled

PS: Using the modern formula for energy a .223 with a 50 grain slug traveling at 3200 FPS has a energy of around 1137 Ft/Lbs.

A .490 dia ball fired at a velocity of 1570 FPS has a energy of 969 Ft/Lbs. which says the .223 has more power and some modern folks would assume it has more killing power because of this.

Using the KP method, the above .223 has a KP value of 357 while the above .490 ball has a KP of 1362 which is a lot more in line with most folks observations.

zonie

 

[paulvallandigham]

A very interesting system. Since these are all arbitrary calculations to estimate performance of ball and bullets on game, this is as valid a formula to use as Ft.lbs.E. woudl be, and it seems to be more accurate a description of what happens in the field.

 

[AZ-Robert]

I don't recall who it was, but a long time ago someone came up with a formula for killing power which boiled down to Velocity X bullet weight X Caliber/100.

That might have been Chuck Hawks:
[url] http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm[/url]

 

[AZ-Robert]

Try this link - contains a ballistic calculator. Ballistic coefficient of a roundball is .068 I believe - check a Lyman manual if you have one to be certain. Link -[url] http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm[/quote][/url]

I use (and like) the Norma calculator too. You have to define your own bullet (bottom left button on the calculator to use it with roundballs, and have to input the bullet weight and coefficient as well as your initial muzzle velocity.

To get bullet weight (lead roundball) use:

diameter x diameter x diameter x 1502.6 = weight in grains

To get coefficient use:

weight in grains / (10640 x diameter x diameter) = coefficient

 

[Slamfire]

John "Pondoro" Taylor, elephant poacher extraoridinae. is responsible for the formula that includes bullet caliber along with weight and velocity. :v