Roundball penetration

[Maynerd62411]

I was wondering how many have had roundball NOT pass through. I've shot 2 deer , this year, so far, and neither one has passed through.
The first was a 6-pointer at 20 yards and went between ribs, through the liver and between ribs on the other side. But it stopped under the skin. The roundball was flat as a pancake. The deer went down instantly. The roundball was flat as a pancake. It had hit no bone to slow it down.
The second deer was a doe at 15 yards.Apparently, I shot too high as it hit the top of one shoulder blade, out the bottom of one vertibrae, and hit a little lower on the other shoulder blade.She went down doing a head over heels flip . Again, I found the roundball on the inside of the hide. It was flat with a couple of ragged edges, but basically intact.
I was using 80 gr Triple 7 with a .530 PRB (.54 cal). At these distances, I figured the roundball would pass through.
Not that I'm disappointed in the performance of the PRB by any means. I've always been rather impressed with the abilities of a simple lead ball. I've put dents a 1/2" deep in 1/4" steel with this load.
Just wondering if what they went through may have slowed them down enough to get caught in the skin. Tough skin? Elasticity?

 

[BS]

This is my theory:

Round balls tend to flatten with speed and get less penetration. If the ball was going slower, it would not flatten as much and would penetrate farther. Hard to believe that you would get better penetration at 70 yards than 20, but that is what I am telling you!

If you up your charge to 110 grains, that may just "blast on thru", making a big hole at 20 yds. One of the more power things. Or if you backed off to 60 grains, you might get less expansion and more penetration!

Solution:

Use a bigger caliber and not have these problems.

My trusty seven ga. with a 1000 grain ball shoots length ways thru deer, my 73 cal broke a leg and blasted out the far side. This year I am using my 62 with 80 grains of FF, and I am pretty sure that my 350 grain ball will pass thru.

 

[Slamfire]

Yes to both questions deer hide is tough and elastic. I have been on the off side of one when it was shot. The other shooter didn't see me, and I wasn't in the line of fire. The hide bulged out then returned to normal shape. His rifle was an old turdy turdy carbine, and he was shootin' 150 grain flat nosed CoreLokt bullets. There just weren't any sharp edges in front to cut that hide.
Your lead ball being flattened out to the size of a quarter or larger is much the same.

 

[scott fellows]

i was just talking with a guy about this tonight. i have shot 3 deer this year and not recovered a single ball. 2 of the deer were with a .62 smoothbore shooting 60 grains of 3f. one of those deer was at about 60 yrds while the other was at about 35yrds. the other deer was done with my .50 using the same 60gr of 3f but the distance was about 85 yrds. on that deer the ball went into the neck on the right side and exited through the center of the left shoulder. maybe our michigan deer aint as thick skinned. :rotf:
pieman

 

[Stumpkiller]

Last year I shot a five point that was facing me at 20 yards or so. I was using a .490" ball and 84 gr FFg. The ball entered between the forelegs, clipped the sternum bone and passed through to lodge behind the rear left femur on the deer's hip; skirting around the bone but not breaking it. Another 1/8" and that's as much penetration as possible on a deer. The ball was only slightly deformed. Mine are cast of scrap lead and may be a bit harder than pure lead.

 

[Blackfoot]

Well I just put my FIRST ever roundball in a deer at about 27 yards ( a doe ) doing a fast walk with the Pedersoli Blue Ridge 50 cal and I could not even tell that I hit her until she crossed a 100 yard picked bean field and laid down .....But anyways that .490 round ball did not go through either ( I was supprised ) It went in on the front side of the front shoulder and into the far side shoulder..I have not fished it out yet to see what looks like but will soon.
The entrance hole is very small but I would guess that the ball flattened out a bit and did its job very well.

 

[Halftail]

The last 3 deer I've taken with rb has gone compleatly through.Only a .490 with 100 grains of 3fr at distances from 15 yards to 60.Mind you these were only young bucks and probably haden't been around me long enough to develop a thick skin. :hmm:
Before that there was a few does that didn't get full penetration at reasonable distances.I'd like to recover a ball out of a deer and weigh it to see if it looses any weight when going through bones and tough hide.

God Bless the Round Ball!

 

[bob1961]

had a deer at 35 yards with a roundball go through the deer and out the other side....a clean 1/2" hole in and out with no bone hit and it went through the heart....the deer ran 80 yards after it went head over heels got up and bolted like it had a fire lite under it..............bob

 

[Birddog6]

Usually I hunt with a .54 cal RB and most of the time the ball doesn't exit, but is under the hide on the off side. This year I decided to use a .59 cal cause I had not used it to hunt since 1980 or so, and I shot 2 deer with it. One at 40 yards & one at 50 yards. Both balls went thraight thru the deer & never hit a bone. I am only using 75 grains of Goex 2F in the rifle also. Doesn't make sense to me but it happens.......
:hmm:

 

[djnye]

using myrtle with 75 gr. blackpowder and .440 ball at 45 yds. on a frontal quartering shot from about 15 ft. above, and aimed at where the off-side shoulder would be, entered base of neck shattering spine and exiting off-side through shoulder. deer fell over sideways and never even shuffled feet. exit wound was full of fat with complete pass-through. i was pleased with myrtle's performance.

take care, daniel

 

[Runner]

I recover about one in three roundballs from deer. If you hit perfectly, they all go thru. I had a good buck get up at 35 yards a few years back to see what was moving towards him. I had no shot at his chest, but I had a perfect neck shot. I shot him with a 490 ball over 100 grains of P. The ball just ticked the neck bones and penetrated 19 inches of solid muscle to stop under the hide on the off side. It was flattened a little on the front side and had a nick where it clipped the neck bones. The wound channel was 50 caliber all the way thru. I hit a big doe in the back shooting down at a pretty steep angle this year and the ball went maybe 10 inches in the deer. It destroyed about 6 inches of backbone and everything around it. Kind of looked like a little bomb had gone off. It is about quarter sized and looks like you worked on it with a hammer for a while.
Roundball is funny that way. If you don't hit large bone, the result is more like an arrow than a modern bullet. If you do hit large bone, it is more like a modern bullet.

 

[Berk]

If you think about it your resaults are exactly what you want. By remaining in the deer all of the balls energy is transfered to the deer. If the ball happens to go completly through the deer some of the energy is wasted. Besides it is always neet to recover the ball just to look at for awhile.

Berk

 

[roundball]

I've heard that theory before, however, that can also mean that a low energy projectile simply doesn't have enough "umphh" to make it through, consequently, even though the claim can be made that "all it's energy was dumped inside", it would be comparatively less energy and a moot point.

The flip side is a projectile that has the umphh to continue plowing/expanding/plowing right on through the whole target, transferring more energy than one which stops halfway through, transfers more shock and trauma to the whole region, creates a longer wound channel and greater blood loss, etc, to the entire breadth of the target, AND produces an exit wound to aid in possible blood trailing if needed.

IMO, that's a far better choice...I think too many deer are lost by shots with weak/marginal powder charges...and although I've killed bucks with the dimuitive .440/128grn ball, even at 60yds, it stopped under the far side skin...I would much rather plow a .54 or .58cal ball all the way through a deer with a 'quarter sized' wound channel & and exit wound for maximum damage, so there's no question about the outcome.

Just another viewpoint on the matter...

 

[Berk]

I agree with what you say about using larger calaber ball being better. Just the larger hole that they make evan not taking in expansion or the extra energy it carries makes it ovious. I was just saying that if a ball travels through the vitals and is laying under the skin that it has done more damage than a pass through. Granted pass trough does offer advantages if the animal runs off. Two exterior holes for the blood to exit. This isnt always fool proof either. A few years back my son put a .490 rb backed by 70 gr FFF through a doe. It went was between the ribs going in and out. She ran 50 60 yd and piled up. THere was snow on the ground so we could follow her trail and see any blood easily. The only blood found was about the sise of my hand and that was where she fell. Go figure.

Berk

 

[mglampson]

Funny how this topic comes up just when I have been thinking about my prb performance this year.

I have taken several deer in the past with a percussion GPR in .54 cal. The load was 70 grains of fffg. I had at first thought this to be a marginal charge but got complete pass through on all but one deer (100 yards plus) and that ball was just under the hide on the off side. It would smash shoulder bones and still whistle right through.

This year I switched to a .54 cal flint rifle and shot two bucks, both with the same load I used to fire in the GPR. Both were at close range and neither showed the penetration I was used to seeing.

Any ideas what was going on here???

Is the flinter losing velocity due to gas escaping at the vent?
Is the extra 10" of barrel length having an effect?
For some reason, the new rifle doesn't seem to shoot with the same authority.
Where did my power go?

 

[bob1961]

my set up right now is my .50 T/C hawken with 28" barrel and hornady .490 ball with T/C's .015 prelubed patch and 70 grains of goex....not stout compaired to others on here....but it gits the job done...............bob

 

[Stumpkiller]

Is the flinter losing velocity due to gas escaping at the vent?
Is the extra 10" of barrel length having an effect?

Yes. By the quantity of "it depends". :winking:

I figure 5 to 10% for "vent loss" when comparing flint to persussion, all else being equal. the smaller the vent hole the less loss.

Barrel length adds significantly to m/l. One of the "Digests", I believe, has charts showing 2" increments from test barrels. A 28" can be 400 fps behind a 42" with the same load.

A tighter bore also increases pressure and gets you more oomph for a given charge. Is the GPR harder to load than your flinter?

I'm burning 78 gr FFFg in my .54 flinter currently.

 

[cptleo1]

I have got 3 this year

.62 cal 65gr 2f

furthest shot about 40 yds

All pass thru

Compared to everybody else

my load seems pretty wimpy

My deer did not to appear to even be hit

but they pile up about in about 40-50 yds

Strangest part is there is VERY little blood

on the ground.

 

[roundball]

My summary to the best of my recollection:

Every .45cal caplock and Flintlock deer I've shot (20-60yds) have stopped inside the deer, bulging the hide on the far side;
110grns PyrodexRS or 90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .440

All those taken with .45cal/255grn Maxi-Hunters have been complete passthroughs.


Only one .50cal caplock and Flintlock deer I've shot (25-50yds) have stopped inside the deer, all others have been complete passthroughs;
120grns PyrodexRS or 90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .490


Every .54cal caplock and flintock deer I've shot (20-70yds) have been complete passthroughs.
120grns PyrodexRS or 90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .530


Two .54cal Flintock Smoothbore deer I shot this year (10-25yds) were complete passthroughs.
70grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wad
.015" plain cotton
Hornady .530

Every .58cal Flintlock deer I've shot from (25-50yds) have been complete passthroughs:
100grns Goex 2F
Oxyoke wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .570

 

[Slowpoke]

I shoot PRB exclusively and I believe that a ball should never pass through the animal but expend all it's energy inside the the critter. My goal is to have the ball in the subcutaneous layer of the skin on the aft side of the animal. If your ball is passing through the animal, you are using to much powder. Not to say that it's wrong or anything, but merely unneeded.

SP