Howdy to all, Newbie question, I was given a T/C renegade .54 hawken and before it was put up years ago it was cleaned but the barrel still has quite a bit of rust in it. What wouldbe the best way to try to clean it up. Also, my uncle always used pyrodex in it, what it the difference between P and RS? Thanks in advance for your reply.
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Rusty barrel questions,T/C renegade
- Thread starter Kygrizzly
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P is for pistols and RS is for rifles, but in my opinion pyrodex is for the birds- :v
If you can locate traditional/real black powder in your area then buy a can or two, you will have to ask for it at the gun counter, they cannot advertise it and must keep it locked up, be sure you speak to a manager. Goex is the brand I use and will probably be the most commonly available. In the alternative I would recommend Triple 7. In both cases 2f is the granulation you'll want to start out with. As for fixing up a rusty barrel, you'll get plenty more advice, but bottom line is that you're going to have to shoot it to see if it's worth saving, then learn how to clean it asfterwards so more rust doesn't occur.
If you can locate traditional/real black powder in your area then buy a can or two, you will have to ask for it at the gun counter, they cannot advertise it and must keep it locked up, be sure you speak to a manager. Goex is the brand I use and will probably be the most commonly available. In the alternative I would recommend Triple 7. In both cases 2f is the granulation you'll want to start out with. As for fixing up a rusty barrel, you'll get plenty more advice, but bottom line is that you're going to have to shoot it to see if it's worth saving, then learn how to clean it asfterwards so more rust doesn't occur.
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KYGriz, Pyrodex P has smaller granules and is designed as a pistol powder, though lots of guys use it in rifles - especially .45 calibers. RS stands for Rifle/Shotgun. The powder granules are larger and it's suitable for your .54 caliber.
Pyrodex usually shoots well in most guns, providing good accuracy and dependability. But you must make sure to clean the gun thoroughly with soap and water after shooting it. Sooner is better, but certainly no more than a day later.
As far as your rusty barrel, swab it liberally with soap and water and leave it wet. Then put a patch on your cleaning jag and wrap the patch with a thin layer of very fine steel wool. Give the barrel a dozen or so strokes with that. Try to get the patch/steel wool combination fairly tight in the bore, and let the cleaning rod rotate with the rifling as you stroke the bore. Then flush it well and dry it. Now run an patch down the bore liberally soaked with light oil. Then wrap the oil patch with steel wool and give it another dozen or two strokes. You may need to add more steel wool to keep everything tight in the bore. Then clean the bore well and inspect it. It should be shiney and hopefully pit free. If there are pits don't get too worried until you shoot it. Most pitted barrels shoot just fine. But they foul quicker and need extra care when you clean them.
Pyrodex usually shoots well in most guns, providing good accuracy and dependability. But you must make sure to clean the gun thoroughly with soap and water after shooting it. Sooner is better, but certainly no more than a day later.
As far as your rusty barrel, swab it liberally with soap and water and leave it wet. Then put a patch on your cleaning jag and wrap the patch with a thin layer of very fine steel wool. Give the barrel a dozen or so strokes with that. Try to get the patch/steel wool combination fairly tight in the bore, and let the cleaning rod rotate with the rifling as you stroke the bore. Then flush it well and dry it. Now run an patch down the bore liberally soaked with light oil. Then wrap the oil patch with steel wool and give it another dozen or two strokes. You may need to add more steel wool to keep everything tight in the bore. Then clean the bore well and inspect it. It should be shiney and hopefully pit free. If there are pits don't get too worried until you shoot it. Most pitted barrels shoot just fine. But they foul quicker and need extra care when you clean them.
hoochiepapa
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Some don't subscribe to the steel wool, but you can also use those green scrub pads on your jag.
paulvallandigham
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Use some penetrating oil like "Liquid Wrench" or " BreakFree", or "Kroil" to soak the bore and reduce the rust you find. Then polish the bore using a product called JB bore cleaner. If you don't have it locally, Use a dampened patch on your jag( 2 if needed to get a tight fit) and put toothpaste on the patch. Run that back and forth in the barrel to polish the lands. Use new cleaning patches if you find the one in use turning black. The Black is iron oxide and oil.
The Grooves may still be rough, and the best way to remove the rust there is by pouring a lead "LAP" to run up and down the barrel with lapping compounds. However, most people are not set up to do lapping, or simply don't want to try it, without some experienced help standing by! :shocked2:
There is a process called " Fire-lapping" Where lapping compound and oil are put on a patch wrapped around a ball. The combination PRB is then loaded down on to a powder charge- usually somthing less than what you might fire for target practice-- and the ball and patch are fired out the barrel. This will get rust out of the grooves, after a few shots, provided you are using the correct thickness of patch fabric to fill those grooves. But, any rust located in the barrel Behind where the PRB is seated will remain in the barrel. Only removing the Breechplug and lapping the full barrel will get all the rust out. That doesn't mean you won't have pitting left in the barrel, however.
Pits require you to spend extra time cleaning the barrel to get the residue of burned powder OUT of the pits. otherwise, such residue will attract water( Moisture) and you will see more rust, even under some of the oils, or preservatives used to protect the rest of the barrel from rust. With pitted barrels, let the barrel SIT some place, full of soap and water, for about and hour. The soap will get the carbon residue out of the pores and pits for you.
Then you can flush both the residue and the soap out of the barrel before drying the barrel and then lubing it to keep new rust away. Use tepid water( warm, NOT HOT!) to clean barrels. It works just as well as HOT WATER will, but you won't burn your hands. :hmm: :thumbsup:
The Grooves may still be rough, and the best way to remove the rust there is by pouring a lead "LAP" to run up and down the barrel with lapping compounds. However, most people are not set up to do lapping, or simply don't want to try it, without some experienced help standing by! :shocked2:
There is a process called " Fire-lapping" Where lapping compound and oil are put on a patch wrapped around a ball. The combination PRB is then loaded down on to a powder charge- usually somthing less than what you might fire for target practice-- and the ball and patch are fired out the barrel. This will get rust out of the grooves, after a few shots, provided you are using the correct thickness of patch fabric to fill those grooves. But, any rust located in the barrel Behind where the PRB is seated will remain in the barrel. Only removing the Breechplug and lapping the full barrel will get all the rust out. That doesn't mean you won't have pitting left in the barrel, however.
Pits require you to spend extra time cleaning the barrel to get the residue of burned powder OUT of the pits. otherwise, such residue will attract water( Moisture) and you will see more rust, even under some of the oils, or preservatives used to protect the rest of the barrel from rust. With pitted barrels, let the barrel SIT some place, full of soap and water, for about and hour. The soap will get the carbon residue out of the pores and pits for you.
Then you can flush both the residue and the soap out of the barrel before drying the barrel and then lubing it to keep new rust away. Use tepid water( warm, NOT HOT!) to clean barrels. It works just as well as HOT WATER will, but you won't burn your hands. :hmm: :thumbsup:
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The was a thread about molasses a while back as a rust remover. Folks that tried say it works. If I recommembers correctly it didn't attack the finish like naval jelley does.
StewartLeach
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There are a lot of 54 cal TC Renegades and Hawkens around here, and more than a few have been put away without sufficient cleaning and rust protection. I have helped several friends as they tried to deal with corrosion damage, and have tried many treatments.
What I now recommend is a combination of a good scrub to loosen and remove the big chunks, and then fire lapping to recondition the bore and grooves. The good scrubbing is done with a 28 (prefered) or 20 (tighter) gauge shotgun bore brush after several days soaking with a penetrating oil such as Kroil. Soak, scrub & patch, soak, scrub & patch, for several cycles.
Next buy a package of Hornady Great Plains bullets, and a Midway lapping abrasive kit. Or find a friend who has the abrasive kit and will help you with the small amount of abrasives needed for this job. Use only the 320 and 600 grits. Impregnate ten bullets with the 320 and ten with the 600 grits. Keep them separate! I put them in sandwich baggies labeled with Magic Marker.
At the range, load and fire the 320's over a charge of 50 grains of 3Fg. The reason for the 3Fg is you want a quick pressure rise to force the skirt of the bullet out into the rifling grooves. Wipe bore between shots. Shoots all ten, then clean barrel well. Load and fire the 600 grits, clean well. Load and shoot for group with balls or bullets you intend to use. If it won't group, order drop in Green Mtn replacement barrel.
With your reconditioned or new barrel, clean it well with warm tap water promptly after every use, dry well with several patches. Be sure to wrap a patch around a 30 or so cal bore brush and dry down into the sub-caliber powder chamber of the TC breech plug. Protect the metal by patching with a patch quite damp with WD40, Ballistol, Barricade or similar. Best practice is to patch with protectant daily for three days after cleaning, and store nose down so oil doesn't accumulate in breech plug.
Hope it works out for you!
White Fox, in the People's Republic of Boulder
What I now recommend is a combination of a good scrub to loosen and remove the big chunks, and then fire lapping to recondition the bore and grooves. The good scrubbing is done with a 28 (prefered) or 20 (tighter) gauge shotgun bore brush after several days soaking with a penetrating oil such as Kroil. Soak, scrub & patch, soak, scrub & patch, for several cycles.
Next buy a package of Hornady Great Plains bullets, and a Midway lapping abrasive kit. Or find a friend who has the abrasive kit and will help you with the small amount of abrasives needed for this job. Use only the 320 and 600 grits. Impregnate ten bullets with the 320 and ten with the 600 grits. Keep them separate! I put them in sandwich baggies labeled with Magic Marker.
At the range, load and fire the 320's over a charge of 50 grains of 3Fg. The reason for the 3Fg is you want a quick pressure rise to force the skirt of the bullet out into the rifling grooves. Wipe bore between shots. Shoots all ten, then clean barrel well. Load and fire the 600 grits, clean well. Load and shoot for group with balls or bullets you intend to use. If it won't group, order drop in Green Mtn replacement barrel.
With your reconditioned or new barrel, clean it well with warm tap water promptly after every use, dry well with several patches. Be sure to wrap a patch around a 30 or so cal bore brush and dry down into the sub-caliber powder chamber of the TC breech plug. Protect the metal by patching with a patch quite damp with WD40, Ballistol, Barricade or similar. Best practice is to patch with protectant daily for three days after cleaning, and store nose down so oil doesn't accumulate in breech plug.
Hope it works out for you!
White Fox, in the People's Republic of Boulder
hoochiepapa
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White Fox, I must correct yoy. It's the people's SOCIALIST republic of boulder.
An alternative to a poured lead lap is to after you have done all that you can to clean it do the following.
Take a round ball close to bore diameter and flatten it slightly. Oil the bore. Hammer the ball into the rifling and push it down with the ramrod. Screw your ball puller into the ball and remove it. It will have the rifling engraved on it. Coat the ball with a fine abrasive and put it back in the bore aligning it with the rifling and run it in and out of the bore until you are satisfied the bore is lapped smooth......
Good Luck................Bob
Take a round ball close to bore diameter and flatten it slightly. Oil the bore. Hammer the ball into the rifling and push it down with the ramrod. Screw your ball puller into the ball and remove it. It will have the rifling engraved on it. Coat the ball with a fine abrasive and put it back in the bore aligning it with the rifling and run it in and out of the bore until you are satisfied the bore is lapped smooth......
Good Luck................Bob
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