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?'s on cva 54 hawkens.....safe??

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backwoodshunter

32 Cal.
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picked up a 54 cal cva hawkens today, well my step dad p[icked it up for me because i was busy. found it on craigslist guy said it was rusty, could use blueing, ben sitting awhile etc etc. sent me a few pics an it didnt look to bad down the bore. anyway i bought it, when i got home an looked down the barrel, it was worse the i thought. the pics i got must have ben older pics or of another gun lol.

but my questions are, how much pitting is to much to be safe to shoot?

in yalls opinion what would be a safe load to shoot out of it? ive got alot of pyreodex so was wondering with that powder. but others are mopre then welcome.

also the edge of the hammer was hitting about center of the nipple. put a new one on thinkiong the old one was bent maybe, and it fixed it but, i had to try a few times for the threads to catch right. any help on this would be helpful thanks.
 
There is a new product out called "Evaporust" which you can find at O'reilly's auto parts stores, among others, that will not only remove rust, but slightly reverses the process so that some metal remains. I would pour a tblsp of this down the bore, give it a good shake, and let it soak in a plugged breech for a day to remove all the rust. Pour it out and rinse the bore with soap and water. Wipe dry, and then oil LIGHTLY with a good grade of gun oil.

Before actually shooting the gun, flush that oil out of the barrel using alcohol. Run a drying patch down to remove any remaining alcohol after you pour it out. Then load and fire.

The T/C guns are well made. But, they are made to be shot using the patched round ball. Try .530" diameter balls, with .018" thick patches. Lube with spit, water, Hoppes Black Solve and lube, Wonderlube, etc. Your choice. They work, but every gun has its preference.

I recommend using Black powder, and start with a load of 50 grains of FFg powder. Work up from there in 5 grain increments. Some guns will like the .535" ball diameter, and some will like FFFg powder better.

Understand that you have a smaller diameter Powder Chamber at the breech, which has a small hole in the center of the chamber, that leads to a flash channel. The channel then goes to the side of the barrel and under the Nipple. You need a nipple wrench to remove the nipple for cleaning, and pipe cleaners to get down into that flash channel. A .36 caliber( .38 spl or 9mm) Jag will fit down into that powder chamber to help you clean and DRY IT.

Because the diameter of that channel is small, some guns( not all) have been known to be fussy about what size powder granules they will let flow through them. Pyrodex comes in 3 grades, RS, P, and "Select". You don't indicate which you have to use. While I would prefer the lower pressure, slightly slower burning RS for this gun, you probably will need to use the smaller granule sized, Pyrodex P powder to insure that the powder flows properly through the barrel, powder chamber, and flash channel.

Keep the powder charges light- if you are comparing the Pyrodex load, BY VOLUME, to the loads used with Black Powder. Increase the powder charges slowly as you check for any leaks of gas. Reduce the volume load of Pyrodex by the company recommended 25% of the volume designated using Black powder.( An adjustable powder measure comes in very handy for this kind of testing.) Pyrodex is less dense than Black Powder. While we discuss Black Powder loads in reference to Grains, which is a measure of weight, Black Powder, as well as the substitute powder such as Pyrodex, are measured by Volume, and not on a powder scale that measures grains as weight. ( Smokeless powder cartridge reloaders are used to this equipment, and terminology.)

For instance, 50 grains of BP is comparable to 40 grains of Pyrodex.( The difference between the two charges by volume are 10 grains, which happens to be 25% of the 40 gr. volume of pyrodex use to equal that 50 grain charge of BP.) 60 grains of BP is comparable to 48 grains of Pyrodex. 70 grains of BP is comparable to 56 grains of Pyrodex.

Check the website for Hodgdon to get more information on how to use Pyrodex.

Without actually visually inspecting that rifle to see how much damage has been done, NO ONE here can do much more than guess on whether the gun is still safe to shoot, or not.

I recommend that you take the gun to a Black Powder Gunsmith, and have him check the condition of the barrel, before firing it with anything. Its simply not the risk of injuring you, or people standing around you to fire the gun without knowing its still safe to shoot. :( :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
The T/C guns are well made.
I don't disagree. But he said his is a CVA.
Yes, I would do the cleaning as best as possible. I like to use hydrogen peroxide occasionally to remove crud build up. Plug the nipple and pour about a half bottle down the bore. Let set for an hour or so then pour out and clean normally. I have never used Evapo-Rust but it get high marks here and elsewhere. Worth a try. If otherwise the rifle looks OK, I would shoot with about 50 gr. black powder, or equivalent and a patched round ball. Before cleaning, remove the barrel and inspect around the breech for any leakage. If there is any, you have a wall hanger. Or you have a stock waiting for an aftermarket drop in replacement barrel.
 
As far as safety is concerned your rusty barrel will be OK.

If you are shooting patched roundballs there is a good chance that the patches will be torn by the rough bore and if that happens the accuracy will be poor at best.

In my opinion, you should buy some #000 steel wool and tear off a piece to wrap around the brass cleaning jag you should have.

With the steel wool and brass cleaning jag mounted on a cleaning rod, apply a little penetrating oil and start scrubbing the bore.

It will take a lot of scrubbing to remove all of the loose rust but if your lucky the rifling won't have any real pits in it causing missing pieces of the rifling grooves.

I've seen some pretty badly rusted bores that did not tear the patches and they shot pretty good.

As for powder, because your gun is a percussion style it will shoot real black powder best but it will also shoot Pyrodex or 777.

A powder load of 60-80 grains, measured by volume in a powder measure under a .530 diameter round ball patched with some .015-.018 thick cotton patches and lubed with a good commercial patch lube should be able to hold a 4 inch group at 50 yards.

Have fun. :)
 
Several years ago a friend bought a CVA for $75.00 at a pawn shop. After checking it over have never seen a bore that bad. Used steel wook on a jag, the bore cleaned up very well. Has taken a couple of deer with the rifle. Just take your time it will probley be ok.
 
backwoodshunter said:
also the edge of the hammer was hitting about center of the nipple. put a new one on thinkiong the old one was bent maybe, and it fixed it but, i had to try a few times for the threads to catch right. any help on this would be helpful thanks.

Others have addressed the rust but this is the part that concerns me more. It sounds like either the nipple was cross-threaded or possibly a nipple with the wrong thread size was used. If the threads are damaged there is a possibility that the nipple could blow out when the rifle is fired.
Take a close hard look at those threads!
If they are damaged you could get an oversize nipple or a new drum to fix it.
For replacement parts try;

Deer Creek Products 765-525-6181

or Tip Curtis
 
Hopefully your replacement nipple has 6x1mm threads. The nipples can sometimes be a little tricky to thread in to those drums because of the tap into the curved surface. Not uncommon on older CVA rifles, especially kits, for the nipple to hammer alignment to be off a little.
 
I have the same gun same cal. in mine for taget shooting I shoot .40 of FFFg 777 a cast .530 ball and a .015 pillow ticking patch lubed with crisco. when I had some rs. I used 60 grns. seemed to shoot ok but mine likes the quicker burning powder. for a hunting load I use for elk I use 90 grns of FFFg 777 and a 380 grn cast r.e.a.l. bullet. dead on at 100 yards, plus it dose a number on elk!
 
well i took a real hard good look aroung the nipple area. it looked ok to me, but poured some oil down the barrel with the nipple in it an its got a right good leak aroung it. i calleddeer creek an they said a new ddrum, id have to send my old barrel to them for them t install it, an its $45 plus shipping. i asked how much for a new barrel would be. and its only $85 for brand new! so im going with a new barrel for it. then i wont have to worry about"it might shoot groups" with the pitting in the barrel.

but thanks everyone for the help.
 
You will be happy with the new barrel from Deer Creek. Bought one for my 54 last year. They come in the white so you will have to either blue or brown it. I browned mine using Dixie Gunworks Browning Solution. Did some final sight in and load work with mine yesterday. I use 90 grains of 2F Tripple Seven and a round ball. From a sitting positon at 80 to 85 yards I am grouping around 4". By the way the new barrel will likely come without sights anything else that is attached to the barrel. Just switch out all the parts from your old barrel. Well built guns. Have fun with it.
 
I was using pyrodex in my GPR and couldn't get it to shoot very good. Let it sit around a year of so while I did other things.Picked it up about a year ago and decided to try real black powder. What a difference!!!!!!! With real black it shoots better than some centerfires!!!!With 67year old eyes and iron sights she'll hold 5 shots under 2" most every time I try her. Sure glad I changed to "Holy Black". Also there are a lot of comments about the pyro and other imitations causing rusting and fouling. I think they are probably right. Frank
 
Think I will try black on my next target session and see if it is any more accurate. My .50 Cal CVA Express Double rifle never showed any appreciable difference. Pyrodex is a little more forgiving on clean up but I always at least do a minim clean up after shooting anyway.
 
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