Saboted Pistol ammunition in a flintlock?

[517]

I'm just starting to look into getting a flintlock rifle, sorry if this is a stupid question.

All the ammunition that I have found that is labeled flintlock ammunition seems to be round lead balls. I am wondering if it is possible to shoot saboted .44 magnum of .45 auto pistol bullets out of a .50 or .54 caliber Lyman Flintlock?

If it is, will they be accurate enough to bother shooting?

 

[musketman]

If it is, will they be accurate enough to bother shooting?

First off, welcome to the forum...

As to your question, it all depends on the twist of the rifling, if it's a slow twist (1:66 or slower) then the answer is no, they will not be stable enough in flight...

Sabots and pistol bullets are expensive, they will cost on average 5 times more to shoot than roundballs, whereas lead roundballs can be collected at the target and recast into more roundballs, making them even more economical to shoot...

There are lead bullets to consider as well (if you gun can stabilize them correctly), T/C's Maxiballs, Minie-balls, Lee's REAL bullet, Buffalo Bullets & Ball-ets head the list...

 

[FearNot]

The REAL point is... why bother. If you want to shoot saboted pistol bullets, buy a Ruger Blackhawk or whatever and shoot them. But if you want to shoot a flintlock, buy RB and shoot them. Shooting saboted pistol bullets in a flinter is like putting a DVD player into a Model T... you can do it, but why would you want to. :hmm:

 

[Rebel]

Anything can be done if you want to bad enough, but why would you want to? Kind of defeats the purpose of having a historical type rifle to shoot some modern day gimic in in it. Try the rd balls. They are cheaper, accurate, and will kill anything you want to hunt with a flinter. And they are just RIGHT. Ohh and welcome to the camp. Don't let us scare ya off with all this. We are just trying to point ya in the right direction.

 

[517]

I can understand the question of why I would want to shoot those kind of bullets, with the historical accuracy being part of the fun of the rifle but the place I will be doing 95% of my shooting isn't a place I could shoot lead anything for environmental reasons.

This really doesn't bother me that much because it is the art of shooting such a complex gun that has my interest. And coming from handgunning, shooting a flintlock still looks to be cheaper than shooting my .40sw.

Are there any guides that would show me what twist rate would be the best for saboted handgun ammo or should I just take a look at the rates in the percussion cap rifles and guess from there?

 

[Old Ironsights]

1/48 or faster.

Go to the TC website and look at their data.

I figure if I need more than RB, I need a Minnieball, not a pistol bullet.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

517,

Welcome to the forum. :grin:
Normally barrels designed for saboted pistol bullets have faster twists such as 1 in 28" as opposed to slower roundball twists like 1 in 66".

BTW, are there pistol bullets that are lead-free?

Grey Whiskers

 

[buckknife]

Lyman makes a plains hunter in flint with a 1 in 32 twist that sould stabalize a sabot and when you decide to shoot roundballs the 1 in 60 twist barrel is always available for it.[url] http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031148[/url]

 

[TN.Frank]

The more things I can do for myself when it comes to shooting the better I like it and since I can't make jacketed bullets and sabots but I can cast a boat load of round balls my vote is to go with a slower twist barrel and round balls. If you're worried about "stoppin' power" you can always get the Lyman Plains rifle in .54cal, that'll give ya' a 230gr round ball that'll do a good job on deer or even elk out to 100 or so yards. Remember, K.I.S.S., a round ball and patch is much simpler then a jacketed bullet and sabot. :v

 

[Zonie]

As others have said, the rate of the twist is important, most dedicated sabot guns having a twist rate of 1:28 to 1:35 while the roundball guns are 1:48 to 1:70+.

Another equally important thing is the depth of the rifleing grooves.
The sabot shooters usually have a .005 deep groove while the round ball guns are often between .007 and .015. (Yes, I know. The TC Hawkens 1:48 twist barrels have grooves that are .005 deep but the issue here is not if TC's shoot round balls, it's will a flintlock shoot sabots.)

IMO, the sabots are designed to seal properly in the shallow groove barrels. In barrels with a deeper groove depth, they may not seal properly and suffer not only poor accuracy from the blow by, but actually do some melting from hot gas erosion. This melted plastic will, IMO foul the bore and require some severe barrel cleaning proceedures.

As to the question, are sabots available for the .44 mag (.430) and the .45 Colt/ACP (.452) the answer is, yes. Cabela's has them both in .50 caliber and the .452 bullet sabot in the .54 caliber for around $6.00/50.

Zonie

 

[gmww]

I have shot hardcast .45 pistol bullets using Harvester and MMP (?) sabots from Cabelas in my .54 Investarms Hawkens. It is a 1:48" twist barrel. They do real well and hold one of the tightest groups I've had in a ML. As far as clean up I used the solvent designed for removing shotcup plastic from barrels. Works very well.

The only complaint...the range master was telling me my red and black sabots were littering up his range. :shocked2:

 

[roundball]

"...but the place I will be doing 95% of my shooting isn't a place I could shoot lead anything for environmental reasons..."

Just in case it's a possible alternative, Remington makes a line of copper coated lead balls...maybe they would be allowed where you're going to shoot...

 

[faw3]

GMWW and Roundball have good answers to your Q, Ive tryed some "Short" sabot-bullet combos and a few worked really well in the 1 X 66 twist, remember , shortst bullet you can find, and 54s will do it better than 50s (bigger the bore more wiggle room you have with bullet length) Fred :hatsoff: the short (lite weight) Powerbelts work good too out of most 50cals on up in 1 x 66.( Myself I only shot roundballs now but you got a reason you cant then you cant, just remember to get the shorter bullets to get better results.

 

[Walks with fire]

I live in PA and we have a flintlock season for 6 weeks after Christmas that requires flintlock ignition but sabots are permitted.

I purchased a flintlock with a Green Mountian 1/28 twist barrel, fiber optics, laminated wood stock, removable breech plug,and a L&R waterproof lock for 500 bucks new. It's made by RMC and this rifle will shoot. I use 250 and 300 grain Hornady HP's in 45 cal. and mmp sabots. It's not traditional but it is flintlock; I have several roundball rifles as well.

The sabots; purchased in 50 unit bags are 7.00 and the bullets are about 15.00 per hundred. It costs around 30 cents a shot plus powder and flints. Mine will do less than 2" at 100 yards and at 150 yards I can hit a 6" bull everytime from the bench.

Google RMC Flintlocks and MMP Sabots to find the companies. They can be shipped thru UPS too. I also shoot Barnes bullets out of mine but they will run around 70 cents a bullet which includes the sabot.

 

[Old Ironsights]

GMWW and Roundball have good answers to your Q, Ive tryed some "Short" sabot-bullet combos and a few worked really well in the 1 X 66 twist, remember , shortst bullet you can find, and 54s will do it better than 50s (bigger the bore more wiggle room you have with bullet length) Fred :hatsoff: the short (lite weight) Powerbelts work good too out of most 50cals on up in 1 x 66.( Myself I only shot roundballs now but you got a reason you cant then you cant, just remember to get the shorter bullets to get better results.

Yah, the copper solid powerbelts would be a better option (full bore dia) than a sub-caliber sabot...

 

[gmww]

Heck I just go with what I can use and what works best in my gun. Can't use the copper stuff in my state for hunting as it is lead projectile only. :hatsoff: