Safety in traditional-color clothes

[Robert Egler]

I was out squirrel hunting the other day with my 54 smoothbore flintlock and had a couple of interesting incidents. First, for a lunch break I sat about 10 yards from the shore of the big lake on the game lands where I hunt. There are maybe 2 or 3 small bushes, but I sit there because you have a great view of the lake there, so it is pretty open. I was wearing a olive green coat and brown pants, and my required orange hat, in this case an orange boonie hat. I see this guy in camo coming across the lake in a little motorboat. He pulls up on the shore, not more than 15 yards from me. I was just sitting there. I was sitting still, but WITH my big orange hat on. We were in plain view of each other. As he ties his boat up to one of the bushes, I realize he doesn’t know I’m there. So I say Hi, pretty low because I don’t want to startle him. He jumps, and looks up toward the treeline. He STILL doesn’t see me and I say, “over here, I didn’t want to startle you”. He jumps again, and say “Wow! You really scared me there! I didn’t know you were there!” He’s a bow hunter scoping out some possible hunting spots for the weekend. Now, I was wearing a big orange hat and was in absolutely clear view, and he still didn’t see me.

Then later the same day I’m sitting waiting for the squirrels in an area with moderate undergrowth. I was just about to move to another spot when I see this little orange hat moving in my general direction through the woods. This guy (also a bow hunter, but not the same guy) gets about 30 yards from me, and I stand up. He’s slowly walking toward me at about a 10-20 degree angle, and I start walking directly toward him, since that’s the way I was planning on going. I’m not being particularly quiet, but when I get within about 15 yards it’s obvious HE doesn’t see me. So again, I say Hi, and he jumps. He says “I never saw you there!”

At this point I’m wondering why I bother wearing the big orange boonie hat. Two “hunters” damn near walk into me and don’t see me. The second one also apparently didn’t hear me walking through brush just a few yards away either. Apparently my view of situational awareness in hunting is not everyone’s view :shocked2: . Really made me wonder about the safety issue of the clothes I wear. But I wasn’t wearing camo, just “forest-y” colors. WITH a big orange hat. Anyone else have similar experiences when wearing non-camo clothes?

 

[XXX]

In both cases you were still and the bowhunter was moving. Movement attracts more attention than color. I think moving also makes it difficult for you to see something else move, as the whole landscape is in motion. Both of these guys were also busy doing something and were not paying enough attention to thier surroundings. Bowhunters like to perch in trees. When they are are the ground, they are usually in a hurry to get to thier stand so they can "start" hunting.
I would say the hat would have done it's job if you had been moving and a stationary hunter had picked up your movement and started trying to assess what you were. When you started walking toward the 2nd guy, you were practicing one of the tenets of good stalking. When you approach something directly, your movement is much less obvious than if you were moving parallel to the target.

I think one of the dangers of mandatory hunter orange is that it conditions the less intelligent among us to assume it is safe to shoot at anything that is not orange.

 

[J.D.]

I was squirrel hunting about 30 feet off of a hiking trail while wearing a faded hunting shirt, stained, brown leather leggings, and a black flat-brimmed hat. A coupla day hikers approached along the trail. I was sitting behind some light brush, but was pretty much exposed.

At one point, the man looked right at me, apparently right in the eye, so thinking he had seen me, I stood up to exchange pleasantries.

The shocked, surprised look, on their faces indicated that they thought they had seen a ghost. Rather than exchange pleasantries, they picked up the pace and disappeared down the trail. :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

I now avoid tourons when in the woods. :surrender: :grin:

 

[Deadeye]

Ca. with all their people doesn't require any orange. I hunted there for 25 yrs. and don't ever remember anyone getting shot, here (Utah)
they require 400 sq. in. of solid orange on your back and head and hunters get shot. That may be true that where orange is required hunters feel it's OK to shoot anytime they don't see orange
and sometime they don't se it even when it's there. I wear as little orange as I can get away with and sometimes even less.
Deadeye

 

[mazo kid]

I don't know....do you suppose it is just a matter of not being aware or paying attention?? To me, a blaze orange cap and/or vest really stands out in the woods, moving or still.

 

[TimJ]

People wonder each fall why South Dakota doesn't require orange for bird hunting, they do for big game. The reason is they did a study and wearing orange had no impact on safety when the hunters are moving. They concluded that hunters just lose track of each other and don't look for it before they shoot. I'm not sure our eyes always pick it up that well either in the middle of the day in the fall woods. I know glaring fall sun has made it hard for me to pick out hunters orange at times. Last time I was tested for color vision I was about as good as a male gets so it isn't that.

Tim

 

[paulvallandigham]

Blaze orange may not stand out in bright sunlight, but here on the flats, we hunt pheasants in fields, and along brush edges to woods, and hedge rows. We also hunt ditches. The Blaze Orange does stand out against the dull brown and gray tones of wood, and brush, and dead tall grasses. Its these conditions where shooters can't see one another, without the bright hats on. We get too many shooting injuries where the victim and the shooter are members of the same hunting party, and the shooter claims he could not see the other man, when the wounds are caused by birdshot, at ranges well under 40 yds.

I believe most of these cases are reckless conduct, and should be prosecuted criminally. The shooter basically decides the safety of other shooters in his party is not as important as bagging that bird or rabbit. He violates his Zone of fire and Zones of safety, and he simply doesn't care if someone is in his field of fire when he snaps that shot or not.

When the Blaze Orange Hat requirement was added here in Illinois, we saw a third of our Hunting accidents VANISH in two years. No other single safety requirement has done as much to reduce hunting accidents as requiring upland game hunters to wear a blaze orange Hat( not a vest- just a hat.)

When you are hunting fields, it much easier to maintain a drive line, looking over your shoulders to stay in line with the hunters next to you. I always have wanted both blockers, and drivers to wear Blaze Orange hats, particularly when hunting standing corn. And, of course, blockers are instructed to pass on low birds, as are the drivers. When the drivers approach the blockers, most of the birds try to run or fly out the sides, and there is a flurry of activity and shooting at the ends of the lines. Once in awhile, a dog will get a bird up in the middle of the field that will fly either back towards the drivers, or out over the blockers, giving the men in the middle of the lines a chance to shoot.

The BLUE SKY Rule should always be followed by bird hunters- ie., you only shoot at birds that are high enough off the ground to have "BLUE SKY" behind them. NO LOW BIRDS, thank you!

Oh, we have very few days in either November or December when the skies are blue, and the sun is bright. We might get a couple of hours about midday, but early mornings and late afternoons are overcast for the most part. No trouble seeing Blaze Orange hats bobbing as the hunters move through fields, and woods.

 

[TimJ]

I think terrain has a lot to do with the effectiveness of orange. I should have said fields not woods. We often have sun in the fall and most places being hunted are open enough to see everyone. We also do not hunt pheasants before 10am and most hunters quit well before sunset. It is easy to keep a line in these fields if the hunter pays attention. Most of the people shot here are wearing orange. The biggest factor is that the shooters usually only hunt a couple days a year. We have more out of state vacation type hunters then resident hunters so we always have a lot of inexperienced hunters.
I do not hunt with big groups and have pretty well given up pheasant hunting because of the recklessness. I agree there are very few true accidents.

It can be very tough seeing hunter orange against a sun drenched crp field. I'm not saying it is a bad thing to wear just that there is nothing that works all the time other then being aware of others. For early morning or late afternoon big game hunting it is like wearing a bright neon light and I wouldn't be without it.

Tim

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree that nothing works in all conditions. That is why we still have accidents. But when the person shot is less than 10 yards away from the shooter, you begin to suspect that the shooter really didn't give safety much of a priority.

If you hunt in large drives, somebody(s) have to be assigned to walk behind the drivers, and caution people who are lagging or getting ahead of the line. And they have to act as safety officers, telling the drivers when their guns are sweeping others on the line, etc. This is the only way you can work with new hunters, or those infrequent hunters you see so often, and stay safe. I don't know any hunter who doesn't appreciate a warning, if its done in the right spirit, and tone of voice. By Right spirit, I mean NO derogatory name calling, or swearing. Just a polite caution, ie., " John, Please watch your muzzle. You were letting it sweep the line to your left; or John, Please keep your finger off the trigger, until you are ready to shoot, and the safety ON. Thank you."

When I hunt with groups, we always have a pre-hunt safety meeting before the hunt. If we can't do it the night before, then we do it when we get out of our trucks, and cars. We check the guns to make sure they have their plugs in them to make them Legal here in Illinois, then with the gun empty, test the safety to make sure the gun does not fire when its on. We discuss crossing fences and ditches, and how guns will be handled during that process, how and where we will load the guns, and unload them, The Blue Sky rule, The Safe SHOOTING zone rules, Etc.

In my experience, all the hunters, including the old timers, appreciate the effort to get everyone's head thinking about safety when you hunt, and discussing the rules openly before we hunt, so that Everyone knows the rules.

I make sure that if someone is using his bird dog, whether he wants any one to shoot a rabbit the dog may kick up. Some don't; others don't care. But ASK. When a hunter puts in all the time to train a dog to just scent trail pheasants, he has the right to say if he wants anyone shooting rabbits that the dog kicks up.

Because I am Left Handed, I like to work on the right side of the line, whether driving or blocking. That gives the hunters standing to the left of me one less muzzle to worry about being pointed in their direction.

 

[longcruise]

they require 400 sq. in. of solid orange on your back and head and hunters get shot. That may be true that where orange is required hunters feel it's OK to shoot anytime they don't see orange

We have similar rules here in CO. 500 sq inches required with some on the head. But, when I look at the accident reports, there is rarely a case of a hunter shot when accidently mistaken for game. Almost never! :shocked2: Most are hunters shooting each other or themselves at close quarters while loading or unloading guns or putting them in and out of vehicles.

Each year I hit the woods (in orange as required) with my ml and sharing the woods with thousands of bow hunters who are mostly in camo. There has only been one accidental shooting of another hunter by an ML hunter in CO ml hunting history. A guy hunting ml with a fellow hunter with bow shot his bow hunter partner. It happened at around 5:00 AM, way before daylight! :shocked2: The Sherrifs office was considering manslaughter charges but don't recall how it ended up.

 

[Stumpkiller]

At this point I’m wondering why I bother wearing the big orange boonie hat. Two “hunters” damn near walk into me and don’t see me. The second one also apparently didn’t hear me walking through brush just a few yards away either. Apparently my view of situational awareness in hunting is not everyone’s view :shocked2: . Really made me wonder about the safety issue of the clothes I wear. But I wasn’t wearing camo, just “forest-y” colors. WITH a big orange hat. Anyone else have similar experiences when wearing non-camo clothes?

It has been my observation that there are some folks who just lack the "observant" gene or something. I know for a fact there are many drivers out there who can't see something as obvious as a moving car in their intended path before they pull out into traffic.

Might be related to a diet overly heavy in vegetables. :haha:

 

[Deadeye]

Marmot, could be but in ut. orange only applies to big game rifle season, not muzzleloader or bird hunting and i don't remember anyone getting shot doing those things. That's one thing we like about ML season is no orange.
Deadeye

 

[tg]

Two of my hunting pards said my Blue shirt really stood out on the brush hillsides we were hunting a few years ago. Oregon does not require it which is fine with me except I think anyone under 16 should have to wear it.

 

[XXX]

It has been my observation that there are some folks who just lack the "observant" gene or something. I know for a fact there are many drivers out there who can't see something as obvious as a moving car in their intended path before they pull out into traffic.

I know your kidding about it being genetic, but I think it is just living in the modern world. The distracted driver talking on the cell phone is the perfect example. Modern society rewards and expects multitasking. Some people don't know how to leave this all behind when they go to the woods and they are not paying attention to what they are doing. Some guy on another forum was complaining about not noticing a trophy deer that approached his stand because he was fiddling with batteries for his video camera and his wife had called him on his cell phone. It did not occur to him that the technology he could not live without had distracted him from what he was supposed to be there for. If your mind is distracted, you can miss seeing just about anything.

 

[Deadeye]

TG, your right about the blue, it's not something usually seen in nature and shows up well. Emergency vehicles have discovered this.
Deadeye

 

[longcruise]

Two of my hunting pards said my Blue shirt really stood out on the brush hillsides we were hunting a few years ago. Oregon does not require it which is fine with me except I think anyone under 16 should have to wear it.

You should take a look at your blue shirt under a UV light. That's how the deer and elk see it. Shows up like a white shirt under strobe lights in a disco.

A lady from Boston was visiting friends in Wyoming. They stopped one day for a sandwich at the local bar and grill. It was hunting season and quite a few hunters were in the bar. Lady asks her friends "Why are all those men wearing bright orange?" Friend answers "It's a state law". Lady replies "what a fine idea. I think all states should require drunks to wear orange!"

 

[dyemaker]

I suppose a hunter in full blaze orange attire would be virtually invisable in a maple tree that has changed colors in the fall.
:hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I suppose a hunter in full blaze orange attire would be virtually invisable in a maple tree that has changed colors in the fall.
:hmm:

No leaves hereabouts on our maples come firearm deer season. :haha:

A friend of mine and I did some photography experiments years ago (pre-digital) and took bunches of B&W images of our hunting duds. Buffalo plaid (red or green - green was better) was much better than Realtree in breaking up your shape, and blaze orange turns into an indistinct gray that blends very well. I've had deer within 10 feet of me while on the ground when I was sitting on a stump and dressed in full blaze gear. Since the photo experiments I've always picked camo that has some light spots - like ASAT or Winona - as most most make you look like a big, dark person from 100 feet.

 

[longcruise]

I've had deer within 10 feet of me while on the ground when I was sitting on a stump and dressed in full blaze gear.

I've had that same experience. Seems that if they don't wind ya and ya don't move they don't see ya.

I was in heavy dark timber waiting for a small herd of elk to enter from a meadow along their morning retreat trail. They did exactly as planned and were going to pass above me at about 20 yards where there was a perfect shooting lane. Wind was perfect, I was motionless, the lead cow looked at me and bolted back the way they came. I was wearing blue jeans! :shocked2: Pretty sure they stood out like neon sign in her UV vision.