School me on paper cartridges and lubed wad

[Brokenbear]

In the above process ...my plan was powder + card wad + Lubed wad + ball

Well that isn't working for me as the lubed .36 cal wads are cut .416 ..even in a non paper set up loading all components loose the lubed wad has to be coerced into the chamber mouth ..the paper will not stand the attempt to compress the wad diameter obviously ..

I see the .31 cal wads are cut to .375 ..but even if that would load OK under a .375 ball in the paper tube would it be effective ???

Is there another work around I hope.. as I really like how clean the lubed wad set up I'm presently using allows for extended shooting periods!

So unless I get good schooling ..and if I'm going to do paper I am left with powder + Card wad +Ball + Slater lube each chamber mouth ....

Thanks
Bear

 

[Eutycus]

Why a card wad? Just personal choice? I'm thinking about going the paper cartridge route too but I had felt wads in mind.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

No wad in paper cartridges. Lubed conical.

 

[Brokenbear]

Why a card wad? Just personal choice? I'm thinking about going the paper cartridge route too but I had felt wads in mind.

Keep some of the heat off the lead perhaps ..I'm sure it will likely fire form around the ball and do no barrel scrubbing

Bear

 

[Brokenbear]

No wad in paper cartridges. Lubed conical.

Just starting on revolvers ..have lots of long gun BP history though ..
I'm shooting open top Colt patterns so wish to take it easy on them with balls ..
I realize in the day conical became main stream and I will likely work up some conical loads for serious shooting but presently wish to get the balls working well for "plinking"

Bear

 

[fishmusic]

In the above process ...my plan was powder + card wad + Lubed wad + ball

Well that isn't working for me as the lubed .36 cal wads are cut .416 ..even in a non paper set up loading all components loose the lubed wad has to be coerced into the chamber mouth ..the paper will not stand the attempt to compress the wad diameter obviously ..

I see the .31 cal wads are cut to .375 ..but even if that would load OK under a .375 ball in the paper tube would it be effective ???

Is there another work around I hope.. as I really like how clean the lubed wad set up I'm presently using allows for extended shooting periods!

So unless I get good schooling ..and if I'm going to do paper I am left with powder + Card wad +Ball + Slater lube each chamber mouth ....

Thanks
Bear

I, too asked about the lube for paper cartridges in another post. My solution was to start the wad at an angle while the tube was in the forming tool and then gently straighten it with the former, place the ball and and slowly compress them into the cartridge. Here is the result.

I test fit a loose cartridge into a cylinder bore to see if it would still have clearance for the loader. I am using 15 gr fffg, a .36 cal Oxyoke lubed wad and a .380 ball. Haven't yet taken it to a range to shoot but I don't anticipate any problems.

 

[Brokenbear]

I, too asked about the lube for paper cartridges in another post. My solution was to start the wad at an angle while the tube was in the forming tool and then gently straighten it with the former, place the ball and and slowly compress them into the cartridge. Here is the result.
View attachment 85556

I test fit a loose cartridge into a cylinder bore to see if it would still have clearance for the loader. I am using 15 gr fffg, a .36 cal Oxyoke lubed wad and a .380 ball. Haven't yet taken it to a range to shoot but I don't anticipate any problems.

I made up 25 complete rounds with various combinations
20g 777+card only+.375 ball
" +card+lubed wad+.375ball
" +lubed wad+ .375 ball
" +unlubed wad+.375 ball
All lubed wads were .375 (31cal) as I could not get the 36cal wads to fit without destroying the paper shell

All loads without lubed wads were chamber mouths filled with mixed bore butter & Crisco

All loads w/ lubed wads including the ones with card wad have had the lube migrate thru out the paper ..the card/lube wad ones just did it slower

Using a new 1862 police ..I could not load the chambers due to overall length.. I was not set up at the range to load the cylinder out of the gun but I did hand load one at a time 3 chambers with the ball and powder versions withe mouth chamber lube and it was successful in that they fired .. were accurate and left no residue in the chambers or barrel

Now I'm faced with building a cylinder "stuffer" or giving up paper cartridges ..the problem being in my mind ..I'm not sure if the wedge system of an open top Colt design is actually set up or will endure constant break downs to reload all the time .. perhaps others with more experience can comment on this concern

If I found constant breakdown proves not to be an excessive wear issue ..I'm may find buying one cheaper than building one but I have only seen pictures of a few and they did not seem impressive but some may be ok .

Again others with experience may offer up good observations on a good cylinder stuffer ..or whatever the proper nomenclature is

Bear

 

[appalichian hunter]

Suggestion, make or buy a slightly under sized punch and build grease cookies that just fits into the paper cartridge then place the ball on top of the grease cookie that will sit on the powder charge too finish the paper cartridge, it would seem to me that upon firing the grease cookie would expand enough too do the same thing as a wad or a ball of lube and not expand the papers too the point of damage during the loading process. If your not familiar with a grease cookie it is just a sheet of wax paper and lube rolled about the thickness of a pop sickle stick and another sheet of wax paper like a ice cream sandwhich which is then punched out in discs too the size you need. Lot less messy than lubing wads or balls of lube squished in the paper cartridge. Make the lube a bit stiffer adding bees wax it may help with the lube soaking through the papers also.

 

[fishmusic]

I made up 25 complete rounds with various combinations
20g 777+card only+.375 ball
" +card+lubed wad+.375ball
" +lubed wad+ .375 ball
" +unlubed wad+.375 ball
All lubed wads were .375 (31cal) as I could not get the 36cal wads to fit without destroying the paper shell

All loads without lubed wads were chamber mouths filled with mixed bore butter & Crisco

All loads w/ lubed wads including the ones with card wad have had the lube migrate thru out the paper ..the card/lube wad ones just did it slower

Using a new 1862 police ..I could not load the chambers due to overall length.. I was not set up at the range to load the cylinder out of the gun but I did hand load one at a time 3 chambers with the ball and powder versions withe mouth chamber lube and it was successful in that they fired .. were accurate and left no residue in the chambers or barrel

Now I'm faced with building a cylinder "stuffer" or giving up paper cartridges ..the problem being in my mind ..I'm not sure if the wedge system of an open top Colt design is actually set up or will endure constant break downs to reload all the time .. perhaps others with more experience can comment on this concern

If I found constant breakdown proves not to be an excessive wear issue ..I'm may find buying one cheaper than building one but I have only seen pictures of a few and they did not seem impressive but some may be ok .

Again others with experience may offer up good observations on a good cylinder stuffer ..or whatever the proper nomenclature is

Bear

here's a link to a home built C&B loading stand.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/cap-ball-loading-stand.61621/

 

[Brokenbear]

here's a link to a home built C&B loading stand.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/cap-ball-loading-stand.61621/

Interesting and thanks but .. I will have to use a "cylinder suffer" as the overall length of the paper casing with 20gr and a ball only is too long to start and load in a Colt 1862 Police while the cylinder is mounted in place

I need a "Cylinder suffer" ...not a pistol stand/suffer

Bear

 

[appalichian hunter]

Take the clyinder out of the pistol, what your looking for should not be that hard too build on your own.

 

[flinter1977]

Just dunk the bullet in melted lube just to the end of the bullet and shoot away
It's not that complicated. Have been doing it that way for years.

 

[Brokenbear]

Take the clyinder out of the pistol, what your looking for should not be that hard too build on your own.

I absolutely agree
Bear

 

[Grenadier1758]

The loading press is easy to make. You really don't need the expensive hold down clamp for the loading, but I can position the ball at the same depth for each cylinder. The wood came from my scrap pile, the treaded insert from my spare parts drawer and the bolts for the ram end came from some odds and ends salvaged bolts. The hold down clamp came from Rockler during a sales event. One bolt is dished for a 36 and the other for a 44.

 

[Red Owl]

Bear: Here's how I do it. Get cigarette paper, like Bugle. You'll need to cut it into a isosceles trapezoid, long length on top WITH GUMMED AREA and a square tab or trapdoor on the bottom length. Fool around until you get the correct shape. Use conical bullets from Dixie Gun Works- they have the PC rebated base. BE CAREFUL on some conicals that are too large to fit into the port on a Colt Navy.
Take a 3/8 dowel and taper the end. Mark a line on the dowel. Line the gum end to the line and over lap the sides, gluing them with stick glue. Fold the trapdoor over the end, seal with stick glue- It will be a little crunched up. You now have a paper cup with the gummed area on top, and on the INSIDE of the rim.
Fill with about 17 gr. FFFg and put in the bullet. Wet the outside of the rim- it will seep through the paper and activate the glue and glue the rim to the bullet. BE CAREFUL until the glue dries. Store in an Altoids tin with tissue paper to keep the cartridges from tossing around and breaking. THAT'S IT.
WORD OF CAUTION, the original cartridges were treated so the case was COMPLETELY burned up. Cigarette paper is pretty good but LIVE EMBERS might remain and you don't want to rapidly reload on a live ember- blow up in your face.

 

[Gunsmith4570]

Just another solution from a video, use Soy wax pearls put 3 or 4 on top of the powder seat the ball in the paper envelope. Soy wax has a high melting point so it won't contaminate the powder, but when the powder ignites it will be right there doing what it should keeping the fouling soft. Source: Blackie Thomas, Shaman's forge Bush craft.

 

[smoothshooter]

In the above process ...my plan was powder + card wad + Lubed wad + ball

Well that isn't working for me as the lubed .36 cal wads are cut .416 ..even in a non paper set up loading all components loose the lubed wad has to be coerced into the chamber mouth ..the paper will not stand the attempt to compress the wad diameter obviously ..

I see the .31 cal wads are cut to .375 ..but even if that would load OK under a .375 ball in the paper tube would it be effective ???

Is there another work around I hope.. as I really like how clean the lubed wad set up I'm presently using allows for extended shooting periods!

So unless I get good schooling ..and if I'm going to do paper I am left with powder + Card wad +Ball + Slater lube each chamber mouth ....

Thanks
Bear

Contrary to popular opinion, revolver wads do not have to fit the cylinder ID to workas long as they are not too large. The wad is not a gas seal or a chain-fire preventer. Their purpose is for lubrication only.
.36 caliber wads work fine in .44 caliber guns.
Square wads work great too.
Point being, don’t get too wrapped up about wad diameters.

 

[Captndan]

Simple thing made complicated. Forget the paper. Waste of time. Just pour in the measured amount of powder, lubed wad , and ball. That's it. Oh don't forget the cap before firing.

 

[fishmusic]

I, too asked about the lube for paper cartridges in another post. My solution was to start the wad at an angle while the tube was in the forming tool and then gently straighten it with the former, place the ball and and slowly compress them into the cartridge. Here is the result.
View attachment 85556

I test fit a loose cartridge into a cylinder bore to see if it would still have clearance for the loader. I am using 15 gr fffg, a .36 cal Oxyoke lubed wad and a .380 ball. Haven't yet taken it to a range to shoot but I don't anticipate any problems.

Took it out yesterday and the cartridges worked OK. Getting the wad past the mouth of the cylinder to some fiddling so I will take another approach.

 

[Rfp10000]

Just another solution from a video, use Soy wax pearls put 3 or 4 on top of the powder seat the ball in the paper envelope. Soy wax has a high melting point so it won't contaminate the powder, but when the powder ignites it will be right there doing what it should keeping the fouling soft. Source: Blackie Thomas, Shaman's forge Bush craft.

What about Beeswax pearls ?